Supers Char

[naloth]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

I said "As GM I would rule 0 that out. It makes no sense." Going by the book, remember Supers came out after Powers, Supers does not mention that last bit about lifting. After all, Overall ST applies to grapples and chokes, and that is what this is.

Both are pretty clear and explicit. I'll walk you through it, so you can see the only leap is that you've decided to house rule how it works.

Supers allows 4 different uses for the +300%. The first you've got partial quotes for:

Supers p 24
"As described in GURPS Powers, it allows heroes to lift extreme weights."

Powers p 58
"Your Lifting ST works as usual except when you use extra effort."

Right there. Lifting ST works completely normally (no using the range/speed chart) for everything other than extra effort. If and only when you use extra effort, can you use the enhanced value. It further says that you can't combine extra effort and grappling using this enhancement. Supers does nothing to remove any of those restrictions.

Basic p 65
"Add your Lifting ST to your ordinary ST when you determine Basic Lift (p. 15) for the purposes of carrying, lifting, pushing, and pulling."

Except that Super Effort only applies when you're using extra effort... Not for any normal carrying, lifting, pushing, and pulling. Powers tells us when you're walking around town normally or wrestling with someone "your Lifting ST works as usual" not it's Super-ST value.

Its the way that optional rule works. You are not adding a temporary disadvantage. You are limiting and enhancement. Just because the enhancement happens to by +300% does not mean it is a point crock.

It's not just the cost of the enhancement. It's that this implementation gives you a bigger point break for less of a drawback and there's no compelling reason why it should just apply to the enhancement. Normally you use it to determine the cost of a less powerful version of the original enhancement. For example, "I can only use this enhancement 2/day" is still an improvement to overall ability but the enhancement isn't as valuable as it would otherwise be.

In your example, the enhancement does everything it always did and didn't really suffer from the limitation. The enhancement arguably be used as often since it's restricted to a form, but that has nothing to do with any of the functions of the enhancement. Furthermore, if you are being consistent with that philosophy the other enhancement (Cosmic allows ST to take reduced fatigue) should follow the same optional rule and enhance "Super-ST +300%" by +50% since the Cosmic only applies to the Super-ST limitations rather than inherent limitations on ST. Your net would be Super-ST +390% plus Reduced Fatigue +20% (which can apply to all ST uses) for a net +410%.

In other cases temporary limitation functions much like a temporary disadvantage. It's limited in scope so it may not be as serious as the original value indicates. That's exactly what is happening here where the Power Modifier isn't a modifier on an ability, isn't limiting ability like it normally would, and actually gives you a bigger discount than if it modified the whole ability.