Afflictions with Follow-Up and Multiple Carriers

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by naloth

Spines cannot normally be used offensively. It's not really a good choice for a follow-up attack.

That's why Follow-up is -50% for a "passive carrier attack such as Spines", rather than 0% for the usual "active" kind.

This is one reason I'd find it hard to argue for a single attack that has Follow-up, using either of two different carriers. Is the Follow-up priced at 0% or -50%? Can't be both. There's also the question of whether it's even possible to use a single attack ability, modified with Follow-up, with more than one other attack ability as its carrier. (Follow-up text says "Pick a different attack as the carrier", which is singular.)

So queue the debate about whether this case needs four attacks or just three, whether it's abusive to allow one Follow-up to ride on all your attacks, and what an appropriate Enhancement (or re-pricing of Follow-up) should be to allow the Follow-up to switch between a set of carriers. Is something like Selectivity enough? Do you need an AA group of Follow-ups (and don't forget the turn to switch the active ability in an AA)? Cosmic +50% to ignore the "a" in the "Select a different attack" rule, and allow it to be plural? Buy the Follow-up one time at full price for each carrier?

Off the cuff, I lean most toward an AA group of Follow-ups. The character has to concentrate and spend a second oozing out some poison in the appropriate place -- not out of concept. Getting to apply it freely to any attack at will seems a little too good.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

That's why Follow-up is -50% for a "passive carrier attack such as Spines", rather than 0% for the usual "active" kind.

I'm aware. Perhaps it would be clearer to say that what was recommended above wasn't good in for what they were trying to accomplish.

This is one reason I'd find it hard to argue for a single attack that has Follow-up, using either of two different carriers. Is the Follow-up priced at 0% or -50%? Can't be both. There's also the question of whether it's even possible to use a single attack ability, modified with Follow-up, with more than one other attack ability as its carrier. (Follow-up text says "Pick a different attack as the carrier", which is singular.)

Yes, I usually keep it to a single attack vector.

IA (piercing or impaling; Aura +80%; Melee -30%; Always On if you can't turn it off at -10% or -20%*) is a single attack that can be used both offensively and is triggered if someone touches you as well. From there you can by the IA (Follow-Up 0%) normally.

*Spines that you can't turn off aren't as bad as being on fire (-30%). I'd say -10% if they can be avoided by being super careful or -20% if they can't be avoided.

Off the cuff, I lean most toward an AA group of Follow-ups. The character has to concentrate and spend a second oozing out some poison in the appropriate place -- not out of concept. Getting to apply it freely to any attack at will seems a little too good.

If someone has long needles with venom everywhere it makes sense that you would get stuck either punching them or being punched by them. I'd avoid switching for that explanation.

[Donny Brook]

What about buy Spines and a Striker and Link them and put Followup on the Spines?

[SchmugginsTheDwarve]

Interesting idea, I wasn't aware that Spines (being purely defensive) + a conventional attack (like a Striker (brawling) blow) would be a valid target for Link.

[Donny Brook]

You'd need to use the +20% optional version of Link to preserve the passive functions of the Spines.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

What about buy Spines and a Striker and Link them and put Followup on the Spines?

Link allows you to activate 2 abilities as though it was one ability. I don't see how that would make sense since there is no way to use spines and a striker at the same time.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by naloth

Link allows you to activate 2 abilities as though it was one ability. I don't see how that would make sense since there is no way to use spines and a striker at the same time.

Hm. What is your rationale for that?

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Hm. What is your rationale for that?

I'm not sure what you mean? It's like trying to link Flight and Aquatic. They function independently and you aren't using them at the same time.

Furthermore, normally on attack powers you must match the stats for it to be a valid link. There's no way to modify spines such that it has the same attack statistics as a striker.

EDIT: The premise behind link is that you're using two abilities together. Here you're trying to use link for two different actions that you want to share a bonus effect. It would be an AA if you want one at a time use.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by naloth

I'm not sure what you mean? It's like trying to link Flight and Aquatic. They function independently and you aren't using them at the same time.

Furthermore, normally on attack powers you must match the stats for it to be a valid link. There's no way to modify spines such that it has the same attack statistics as a striker.

EDIT: The premise behind link is that you're using two abilities together. Here you're trying to use link for two different actions that you want to share a bonus effect. It would be an AA if you want one at a time use.

It seems like you object to the very purpose of Link. With the 20% version of Link you can use two Advantages together as if they are one, or use them independently. The text for Link in Basic Set doesn't, to me at least, suggest the sorts of limitations you imply.