Reviewer gives GURPS Space substance 3 out of 5

[Luther]

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12134.phtml

Ranting a part,

In sum, GS 3e was a gaming product, while GS 4e is almost more of a reference manual for someone wanting to write a hard SF novel, but is seriously lacking (almost totally lacking, in fact) in actual game material.

is this true?

[Wicked Lurker]

Quote from the review:

"Gurps space 4e is the latest product out for gurps 4e, and like other 4e gurps products it's expensive, hardbacked, slickpapered, colored and overpriced for what actually get."


This does not seem like the reviewer had a neutral, unbiased view on the material.

[jahn]

Hmm, I haven't liked either of Reid's reviews. He expects something different than what the product is supposed to be. GURPS 4e Space is analogous to GURPS 4e Fantasy -- they're both more concerned with creating the world and running the campaign than with giving you actual charts and rules. So if you didn't like Fantasy because it's too theoretical then Space will probably also disappoint (and although the world/system and alien design rules are quite excellent, I bet people like Reid would have preferred a simpler treatment that takes half the space and use that space for charts of weapons, tech and spaceships along with a simple space combat system).

[Luther]

Comments point out that GURPS Fantasy has a list of supplemental stuff that makes the product more complete. GURPS Space not. Why?

[damon]

zay're making it so that to run a campaign you need like 8 books instead of 3.

that was one of the biggest complaints i heard about 3e.. and they're exacerbating it rather than addressing it.

but that's the trade off for no overlap i guess, which was reportedly a bigger complaint.

huh.

[KDLadage]

Read the review; disagreed with most of it; posted a reply to in on RPG.NET.

[DryaUnda]

Originally Posted by jahn

I bet people like Reid would have preferred a simpler treatment that takes half the space and use that space for charts of weapons, tech and spaceships along with a simple space combat system).

Funny you should mention that...

Originally Posted by Britt Reid

The bad part of gurps space 4e isn't anything that's in it, it's what's not in it that hurts. In a book about space and technology, not one single piece of equipmwent is statted out in 4e terms. Not one single weapon, ship or even a spacesuit appears in stat form, and that hurts the book a lot.

What made it worse is that I dug up my gurps space 3e book to compare the two. GS3e was 175 pages and had several useful lists of weapons, equipment and gear taking up a few pages. It also had a basic modular starship construction system and a spaceship combat system. Lastly, it was softcover, flat paper, B&W and more affordable.

Originally Posted by Britt Reid

The bad part of gurps space 4e isn't anything that's in it, it's what's not in it that hurts. In a book about space and technology, not one single piece of equipmwent is statted out in 4e terms. Not one single weapon, ship or even a spacesuit appears in stat form, and that hurts the book a lot.

What made it worse is that I dug up my gurps space 3e book to compare the two. GS3e was 175 pages and had several useful lists of weapons, equipment and gear taking up a few pages. It also had a basic modular starship construction system and a spaceship combat system.

The thing is that they seem to be trying to avoid repeating content. So to look for spacecraft (or any other vehicles) you need only look in GURPS Vehicles 4e, once it is out. Although the fact that Fantasy does not follow this guideline is odd.

You can do space campaigns using the equipment and ships in the basic set. Ultra-Tech and Vehicles 4e of course will help those who want even more. But it is a trade off. If you don't want to repeat content then GURPSers may need to buy more books. I for one am OK with that trade off because I am likely to buy the "catalog" books anyway and would rather not have repeated pages.

The complaint about hardcover, color editions is silly though. I think the prices are pretty reasonable for what you get. A lot of other games are pricier than the GURPS 4e line. I think the reviewer is simply biased against SJG for some reason (the stab at forum moderators makes this obvious).

[KDLadage]

Originally Posted by Luther

Comments point out that GURPS Fantasy has a list of supplemental stuff that makes the product more complete. GURPS Space not. Why?

I like GURPS Fantasy. Good book. very good book.

But I would have to say that many of the things you say make the book more complete are "wasted pages" in my opinion. Fantasy has spells that are covered in MAGIC -- so why do I need them here? When I got to that section, I skipped it without reading it. I knew it was wasted pages, in my opinion.

Fantasy includes some material that will be getting full treatment in Vehicles -- so why do I need them here? When I got to that stuff, I skipped it as well without reading it. I knew it was wasted pages, just like the spells, in my opinion.

Do I find Fantasy "more useful" because of that info? No... I wonder what other info would have been included had those pages not been wasted.

So I guess I am on the other side of this fence.

[Mark Skarr]

Hmm, I think his final paragraph is quite telling:

Originally Posted by Britt Reid

It also shows why getting "Star Hero" might be a better buy if you want gaming material foor a gaming system as opposed to a refference book for a budding SF writer, especially since one of the authors of GS4e worked on star hero.

Hmmm . . . cross purposes or innocent suggestion?
You decide.

Edit:
The only reason I bought GURPS Fantasy is because of the Author. I hate fantasy, but I'll pretty much buy anything that has William H. Stoddard's name on it.