If I'm ×4 strong and my club is ×4 heavy, do I hit you with ×16 force?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

But personally, I'd start by looking at Basic Set p355, throwing.

The first thing you should do with the throwing rules is never look at them again.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The first thing you should do with the throwing rules is never look at them again.

I don't think there's anywhere better to look for what the ST stat translates to in terms of actions faster than weight lifting.

[Rupert]

Well, the first problem is that the distance table implies that a thrower puts more energy into an object the heavier it is, yet the damage table implies that there's a point of peak efficiency, and above and below that weight ratio less energy is put into the object. Then there's the way the distance table says doubling your ST lets you throw an object four times the weight twice as far (for eight times the energy).

A start would be giving a fixed distance for a given weight ratio, not multiplying ST by the distance modifier.

If one assumes that large creatures can accelerate an object over a longer distance for more speed (like the bonus long arms give to damage), then that can be added in separately in some way.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Well, the first problem is that the distance table implies that a thrower puts more energy into an object the heavier it is, yet the damage table implies that there's a point of peak efficiency, and above and below that weight ratio less energy is put into the object.

The first thing definitely isn't true. Weight and distance modifier have an inverse relationship over most of the range. Since range varies as V^2, that table indicates that changing the weight at constant strength generally doesn't change the energy at all.

The damage table does imply a point of peak efficiency. However, I would hesitate to assume that damage corresponds to energy.

Originally Posted by Rupert

Then there's the way the distance table says doubling your ST lets you throw an object four times the weight twice as far (for eight times the energy).

Yes, that is questionable.

[zoncxs]

Doubling your ST score quadruples your BL. Thus twice the distance because you are applying twice the amount of energy than before.

ST 10 is BL 20, ST 20 is BL 80.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

The first thing definitely isn't true. Weight and distance modifier have an inverse relationship over most of the range. Since range varies as V^2, that table indicates that changing the weight at constant strength generally doesn't change the energy at all.

That's not true - it's only a simple inverse relationship for things heavier than your BL. For objects less than your BL it's closer to one quarter the weight gives twice the range. I very much doubt that the point where someone throwing an object loses efficiency is anywhere near as high as their BL. I'd expect it to be closer to 1/4 BL, and something too fiddly to bother with in GURPS anyway, especially as it'd be related to Striking ST not Lifting ST, yet throwing weight ratios are off BL, which is from Lifting ST.

Also, weights under BL would be the more common things to be throwing in a non-supers game, so that should be where the system actually makes as much sense as possible, and it doesn't.

Something like [BL]/[Object weight] x 5 yards, capped at ST x 5 yards (numbers made up, subject to reality testing, etc.) would make more sense. Then adjust them for 2-handed throws, time taken, run ups, only caring about distance rather than trying to hit something, and so on.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I don't think there's anywhere better to look for what the ST stat translates to in terms of actions faster than weight lifting.

The problem is that the throwing rules are nonsense.

Basically, throwing distance is equal to energy/weight * adjustment for angle, and energy is equal to force * distance (during the throwing process). This works out to (distance thrown) = (distance moved when throwing) * (force applied when throwing) / (weight) -- i.e. distance is based on arm length * BL/weight. There's some additional efficiency effects because muscle applies less force as its contraction speed increases, but in general a ST 20/SM 0 character should throw an 80 lb object (1xBL) exactly the same distance as a ST 10/SM 0 character would throw a 20 lb object. The GURPS throwing rules has the first character throw it twice as far.

[tbone]

My least favorite thing about throwing in the game: There's the BS system for throwing things, which (as noted above) isn't universally loved, but at least it's a generic system . . . which weapons then completely ignore anyway, each weapon using its own "distance = ST * X" rule. Bleah.

On top of that is the lack of reasonable mods to throwing distance for AOA, skill, or movement (i.e., a running throw).

Hardly the kind of thing that destroys the game, but a minor dissatisfaction all the same.

[bert]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The first thing you should do with the throwing rules is never look at them again.

Would you please elaborate on why?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by bert

Would you please elaborate on why?

I already did. 2x ST should not let you throw 4x as much 2x as far, it should let you throw 4x as much for the same distance.