modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear

Plane · 09-29-2019, 05:31 PM

B38 "take a Concentrate maneuver and roll against frequency of appearance. On a success, your Ally appears nearby"

I thought that might be instant until I read pg 41 of Powers:

The GM determines how long it takes summoned beings to appear.
This can vary with the circumstances:
fire elementals might appear instantly in a volcano but not at all at sea,
animals might need to reach the summoner on foot,
and so on.
This variability makes most modifiers that affect time requirements inappropriate.

Is there any alternate options for getting a fixed time until arrival? This makes it sound like "your allies already exist somewhere and you can just call them to travel to you at whatever speed they are capable of".

Is there something more like a "create out of thin air in a fixed amount of time" alternate option to this, to which you could apply modifiers that affect time requirements?

P95 (Alternatives to Illusion) recommends this as one option to "conjure material creations" in which case travel time wouldn't necessarily matter if you were to say, create a raven ally out of thin air, though in the case of a fire elemental I could see how it might go faster making them if raw materials like lava were available or you weren't underwater and damaging fire as you created it.

Even though P41 mentions an option to "bring forth new allies each time", I'm guessing this is probably meant to be a fixed kind of ally. Like you'd have "Ally: Goblin Warrior" but each time you summoned a goblin it'd be a different goblin warrior with similar capabilities but no memory or friendship with you.

I figure it's not that versatile since P64 mentions "Only Allies with Minion and Summonable" as an optional limitation for Modular Abilities, which sounds like what you're supposed to do if you want to change what type of things you're able to summon by moving character points around?

P29 mentions

Talent doesn’t normally modify reaction rolls, either, but the GM might make exceptions for entities directly conjured by the power (such as Allies with the Summonable enhancement)

Sort of seems to contradict P41's "Powering Up" note:

Talent never affects appearance rolls but does add to the summoner’s rolls to influence his Allies and his Allies’ reactions toward him.

So I figure that you have a generic "non-conjured summon" and a "conjured summon"

Non-conjured would have variable time until appearance based on distance (how near is the forest? how near is the volcano?) and the appearance rolls do not benefit from talent...

Conjured would have fixed time and appearance rolls DO benefit from talents.

The 2nd one sounds better unless it had a medium basic time compared to a variable (short to long) time for non-conjured summons.

For example if Raven Ally (Summonable: Conjured) took 10 seconds to make a raven out of thing air, then Raven Ally (Summonable: Called) might take 1 second if there is a raven in the immediate area (instantly helps you) but it might take 100 seconds if the nearest raven nest is 2400 yards away (ravens fly about 50mph or 24 yards per second)

The other problem with reusability is that with "called" summons you could deplete the local raven populations sending them to fight eagles, while "conjured" summons would have no concern (with "Constantly" Frequency of Appearance, you can make infinite ravens, replacing each dead raven with a new one, though you could only ever had 1 at a time)

09-29-2019, 05:31 PM	#1
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	modifying time it takes for summoned allies to appear B38 "take a Concentrate maneuver and roll against frequency of appearance. On a success, your Ally appears nearby" I thought that might be instant until I read pg 41 of Powers: The GM determines how long it takes summoned beings to appear. This can vary with the circumstances: fire elementals might appear instantly in a volcano but not at all at sea, animals might need to reach the summoner on foot, and so on. This variability makes most modifiers that affect time requirements inappropriate. Is there any alternate options for getting a fixed time until arrival? This makes it sound like "your allies already exist somewhere and you can just call them to travel to you at whatever speed they are capable of". Is there something more like a "create out of thin air in a fixed amount of time" alternate option to this, to which you could apply modifiers that affect time requirements? P95 (Alternatives to Illusion) recommends this as one option to "conjure material creations" in which case travel time wouldn't necessarily matter if you were to say, create a raven ally out of thin air, though in the case of a fire elemental I could see how it might go faster making them if raw materials like lava were available or you weren't underwater and damaging fire as you created it. Even though P41 mentions an option to "bring forth new allies each time", I'm guessing this is probably meant to be a fixed kind of ally. Like you'd have "Ally: Goblin Warrior" but each time you summoned a goblin it'd be a different goblin warrior with similar capabilities but no memory or friendship with you. I figure it's not that versatile since P64 mentions "Only Allies with Minion and Summonable" as an optional limitation for Modular Abilities, which sounds like what you're supposed to do if you want to change what type of things you're able to summon by moving character points around? P29 mentions Talent doesn’t normally modify reaction rolls, either, but the GM might make exceptions for entities directly conjured by the power (such as Allies with the Summonable enhancement) Sort of seems to contradict P41's "Powering Up" note: Talent never affects appearance rolls but does add to the summoner’s rolls to influence his Allies and his Allies’ reactions toward him. So I figure that you have a generic "non-conjured summon" and a "conjured summon" Non-conjured would have variable time until appearance based on distance (how near is the forest? how near is the volcano?) and the appearance rolls do not benefit from talent... Conjured would have fixed time and appearance rolls DO benefit from talents. The 2nd one sounds better unless it had a medium basic time compared to a variable (short to long) time for non-conjured summons. For example if Raven Ally (Summonable: Conjured) took 10 seconds to make a raven out of thing air, then Raven Ally (Summonable: Called) might take 1 second if there is a raven in the immediate area (instantly helps you) but it might take 100 seconds if the nearest raven nest is 2400 yards away (ravens fly about 50mph or 24 yards per second) The other problem with reusability is that with "called" summons you could deplete the local raven populations sending them to fight eagles, while "conjured" summons would have no concern (with "Constantly" Frequency of Appearance, you can make infinite ravens, replacing each dead raven with a new one, though you could only ever had 1 at a time)