[World Building / GURPS] Rainbow Six Organization

Ellrelion · 06-03-2019, 03:45 PM

A non-existent EU would radically change the situation of Europe, both in terms of politics, law and prosperity of the European nations. You would have a much poorer Europe, where travelling across the continent is a beaurocratic nightmare and where very few multinationals would quarter their HQs.
You could even have open hostility among many nations, notably France and Germany.

The Colonel · 06-03-2019, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellrelion

A non-existent EU would radically change the situation of Europe, both in terms of politics, law and prosperity of the European nations. You would have a much poorer Europe, where travelling across the continent is a beaurocratic nightmare and where very few multinationals would quarter their HQs.
You could even have open hostility among many nations, notably France and Germany.

...potentially, or at least within the possibility range of alternate histories. Although 'open hostility' would seem highly unlikely given that the early 90s were right at the end of the Cold War and they'd need to be quick off the block to shake off habits of co-operation within NATO. Without NATO as well, we would have to assume that Prism was a KGB or Spetsnatz unit.

Anaraxes · 06-03-2019, 08:43 PM

I'm not sure diplomatic immunity covers the sorts of things you seem to be imagining.

- It comes in different levels, and only the top diplomats have the top levels. Staff members and lesser diplomats (like consuls rather than ambassadors) have less protection.
- In many countries, the receiver has to accredit the diplomat wanna-be. It's not automatic, just because the sending country declares them to be a diplomat.
- Similarly, in many countries, diplomats only have immunity in the nation to which they're accredited, not anywhere around the world. An accredited diplomat from country A to country B can't generally go commit crimes in country C and expect to go unprosecuted.
- Diplomacy has a lot of ***-for-tat going on. If country A is willing to abuse immunity and flaunt a special ops team in country B as "diplomats", then country B might well be willing to cause a diplomatic incident and just prosecute and punish the "diplomats" anyway. Immunity is only a get-out-of-jail-free card if the receiving country is willing to play along -- and the main reason to play along is to get that benefit for their own legitimate diplomats. Once someone starts abusing the system, it rapidly falls apart. Everyone with an interest in preserving diplomatic relations between states is going to frown upon the country abusing the system, not the receiver that's prosecuting despite their notional immunity.

The OP seems to be asking about a three-way deal. At least, that's what I get from the "ideal city" to "operate from" and receive immunity from the work they do "overseas". Even if country B is willing to play along with the diplomatic sham that the specops dudes are country A's diplomats to country B, country C isn't going to care.

Non-state organizations, like the al-Qaeda analog to Anwar al-Bukhari (the bin Laden analog), are also not going to care about diplomatic niceties. They'll just behead their prisoners or put a bullet in them. I mean, you're already sending out death squads to rub them out -- what do they have to lose?

All this suggests your Rainbow Six teams wants to operate from a country that can back them up with powerful diplomatic, economic, and military measures, for intimidation when they get caught or a rescue. Big powers, in other words: the US, EU, Russia, China. And they don't really need a screen in a third-party country. The US might push Pakistan around for their "diplomats", but Norway isn't going to go out on a limb for a US "diplomat" -- and even if they were willing, there's just that much less they can do. The team isn't going to be roving from city to city with constantly-changing accreditation as diplomats in every target city. Not only it that implausible, it's bureaucratically slow. And they don't even have to be recognized diplomats for their Big Brother to take up their cause as simply citizens or even their military, so it may not even be that useful for the game to worry about diplomatic immunity.

06-03-2019, 03:45 PM	#1
Ellrelion Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Mantua - Italy	Re: [World Building / GURPS] Rainbow Six Organization A non-existent EU would radically change the situation of Europe, both in terms of politics, law and prosperity of the European nations. You would have a much poorer Europe, where travelling across the continent is a beaurocratic nightmare and where very few multinationals would quarter their HQs. You could even have open hostility among many nations, notably France and Germany.

06-03-2019, 08:43 PM	#3
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: [World Building / GURPS] Rainbow Six Organization I'm not sure diplomatic immunity covers the sorts of things you seem to be imagining. - It comes in different levels, and only the top diplomats have the top levels. Staff members and lesser diplomats (like consuls rather than ambassadors) have less protection. - In many countries, the receiver has to accredit the diplomat wanna-be. It's not automatic, just because the sending country declares them to be a diplomat. - Similarly, in many countries, diplomats only have immunity in the nation to which they're accredited, not anywhere around the world. An accredited diplomat from country A to country B can't generally go commit crimes in country C and expect to go unprosecuted. - Diplomacy has a lot of ***-for-tat going on. If country A is willing to abuse immunity and flaunt a special ops team in country B as "diplomats", then country B might well be willing to cause a diplomatic incident and just prosecute and punish the "diplomats" anyway. Immunity is only a get-out-of-jail-free card if the receiving country is willing to play along -- and the main reason to play along is to get that benefit for their own legitimate diplomats. Once someone starts abusing the system, it rapidly falls apart. Everyone with an interest in preserving diplomatic relations between states is going to frown upon the country abusing the system, not the receiver that's prosecuting despite their notional immunity. The OP seems to be asking about a three-way deal. At least, that's what I get from the "ideal city" to "operate from" and receive immunity from the work they do "overseas". Even if country B is willing to play along with the diplomatic sham that the specops dudes are country A's diplomats to country B, country C isn't going to care. Non-state organizations, like the al-Qaeda analog to Anwar al-Bukhari (the bin Laden analog), are also not going to care about diplomatic niceties. They'll just behead their prisoners or put a bullet in them. I mean, you're already sending out death squads to rub them out -- what do they have to lose? All this suggests your Rainbow Six teams wants to operate from a country that can back them up with powerful diplomatic, economic, and military measures, for intimidation when they get caught or a rescue. Big powers, in other words: the US, EU, Russia, China. And they don't really need a screen in a third-party country. The US might push Pakistan around for their "diplomats", but Norway isn't going to go out on a limb for a US "diplomat" -- and even if they were willing, there's just that much less they can do. The team isn't going to be roving from city to city with constantly-changing accreditation as diplomats in every target city. Not only it that implausible, it's bureaucratically slow. And they don't even have to be recognized diplomats for their Big Brother to take up their cause as simply citizens or even their military, so it may not even be that useful for the game to worry about diplomatic immunity.