US Law Enforcement Response, Time, Scale and Coordination (Galveston, TX)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Icelander

W


I-45 is completely within Texas, but, of course, it is probably used for all sorts of interstate commerce.
.

If it's not obvious the "I" designation always indicates a road that's part of the Interstate highway system (and funded in that manner). Where the money starts out from decides where the legal authority ends up with.

I-45 isn't unique. I believe I-16 goes only from Savannah to Macon, all within Georgia.

State roads get an "SR" number (at least in Florida and adjoining states).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If it's not obvious the "I" designation always indicates a road that's part of the Interstate highway system (and funded in that manner). Where the money starts out from decides where the legal authority ends up with.

I-45 isn't unique. I believe I-16 goes only from Savannah to Macon, all within Georgia.

State roads get an "SR" number (at least in Florida and adjoining states).

Very good.

What kind of authorization do the first responders, Galveston PD and/or Galveston County Sheriff, or any other possible LE agency that becomes involved, require to put up a police roadblock on the I-45 within the city of Galveston, in Galveston County?

Assuming that our nefarious NPCs estimate the risk of going through with their foolhardy, ad hoc scheme is less than having their masters come after them for appropriate punishment, I've located the only spot for an ambush where the OpFor can be reasonably certain that the police will drive through with their prisoner. On the corner of Broadway Street and 71st Street, right next to the I-45, as from here, those transporting the prisoner have a choice of two routes. Before that point, the choices mostly boil down to which direction to take on Broadway Street, away from the police station, County Jail and hospital, or toward them.

This means that the spot is almost certainly a possible ambush site, as any alternate route that diverges from Broadway Street earlier than this would be extremely odd, as it would just be adding distance for no benefit. Neither local cops nor ambulance drivers are likely to take a detour from the most efficient route that leads to their destination for no purpose. But Google Maps shows a branching out of possibilities after this corner, with more than one route being logical, depending on personal preference or possibly departmental protocol in re freeways vs. local roads. As the OpFor doesn't have enough information to know for sure which route their targets might choose, it makes it necessary to hit them here or not at all.

Also, this site is practical because the OpFor can fairly easily get to the other side of the freeway, as the 71st Street goes under it and leads conveniently to an on ramp less than a quarter mile away, putting them on the I-45 and headed for freedom. In fact, even driving at legal highway speeds and dealing with average traffic, the OpFor can leave the I-45 on the mainland only six minutes after they secure their package and start their escape and evasion drill.

Of course, while by GURPS rules and even technically in real training exercises (shooting man-sized targets through car windows at 10-30 yards with red-dot sighted Bushmaster XM-15 QRC, Colt LE9620 and DPMS Panther Oracle rifles is not technically hard), the OpFor should be able to shoot 2-4 armed police from ambush and remove one girl in less than a minute of Aim, All-Out Attack, Attack and Move maneuvers (technically, probably 10-15 seconds if everyone moves like hostage rescue operators), the NPC considering this crazy plan realizes that his sicarios are not Delta or HRT.

Service in the Bolivian or Pervian military, in the best case scenario followed by security work for Academi/Xe, Triple Canopy or Aegis LLC, does not produce SOF-quality troops. Even less so does belonging to violent gangs or militant groups, even if someone was hand-picked as an effective enforcer. In any case, while the OpFor sicarios have some experience working together in paramilitary teams, the leader's three best men are not used to working with the the imported shooters. The OpFor leader would be happy to be moving in two minutes after the first shot and fears that four minutes are quite possible (but must be avoided, if they want to succeed).

The negatives to the chosen ambush site are primarily two. 1.3 miles to the Galveston PD police station and ca 350-400 yards to the moored yacht Penemue, filled with PCs and the kind of armed security guards a billionaire with scary enemies employs.

However, assuming that the PCs and their NPC allies decline to fire at anyone 350+ yards away in the dark, when they can't be sure of identifying friend or foe, the most likely point of failure for the OpFor's rescue plan is being stopped on the I-45, before they reach the mainland where there are multiple potential routes and law enforcement will have a hard time blocking them all.

How long will it take for police cars to block the north-bound traffic on the Galveston Causeway?

Who needs to sign off on doing so?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Very good.

What kind of authorization do the first responders, Galveston PD and/or Galveston County Sheriff, or any other possible LE agency that becomes involved, require to put up a police roadblock on the I-45 within the city of Galveston, in Galveston County?

Possibly a lot, but why would they do that? The normal response is that you whistle up a dozen police cars and a couple helicopters and form a moving roadblock (you can find many examples of that sort of thing; for example, I saw this pop up last week).

Originally Posted by Icelander

Of course, while by GURPS rules and even technically in real training exercises (shooting man-sized targets through car windows at 10-30 yards with red-dot sighted Bushmaster XM-15 QRC, Colt LE9620 and DPMS Panther Oracle rifles is not technically hard), the OpFor should be able to shoot 2-4 armed police from ambush and remove one girl in less than a minute of Aim, All-Out Attack, Attack and Move maneuvers (technically, probably 10-15 seconds if everyone moves like hostage rescue operators)

Nowhere near that easy. There are a series of problems:

1. Cars and vans can be controlled without exposing yourself. You can't really steer, but if you make it three blocks in a straight line, that's still plenty of distance to make a big mess of the ambusher's plans.
2. Cars and vans don't actually stop when the driver is killed.
3. Many vans have access to the driver's compartment from the back, meaning anyone in the van is potentially able to replace the driver, and in fact do so while never being visible to people outside the vehicle.
4. While reactions under fire are quite erratic, there's a high chance of the reaction being to accelerate to try and get out of the area.
5. The end result is, if you manage to stop the vehicle at all, it's likely to be hundreds of yards from where the ambush occurred, and is likely to involve a high speed crash. Which is less than optimal if you want to rescue someone alive and intact.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Possibly a lot, but why would they do that? The normal response is that you whistle up a dozen police cars and a couple helicopters and form a moving roadblock (you can find many examples of that sort of thing; for example, I saw this pop up last week).

Yes, I should have been clearer. The OpFor is worried about any police response that prevents automobiles from crossing the Galveston Causeway, over to the mainland, regardless of whether it's done using vehicles or barricades.

Originally, I was not sure whether the OpFor would plan on reaching the mainland before an effective response or whether they'd explore hiding in Galveston until the authorities had to open the bridge to traffic (the NPC leader is not known to the authorities and the target is known by a wrong name and a poor photo). However, for a variety of reasons, I think that the latter plan is impractical, so only speed and violence of action remain to be explored.

Originally Posted by Anthony

Nowhere near that easy. There are a series of problems:

1. Cars and vans can be controlled without exposing yourself. You can't really steer, but if you make it three blocks in a straight line, that's still plenty of distance to make a big mess of the ambusher's plans.
2. Cars and vans don't actually stop when the driver is killed.
3. Many vans have access to the driver's compartment from the back, meaning anyone in the van is potentially able to replace the driver, and in fact do so while never being visible to people outside the vehicle.
4. While reactions under fire are quite erratic, there's a high chance of the reaction being to accelerate to try and get out of the area.
5. The end result is, if you manage to stop the vehicle at all, it's likely to be hundreds of yards from where the ambush occurred, and is likely to involve a high speed crash. Which is less than optimal if you want to rescue someone alive and intact.

Well, failure is always a possibility, but the ambush is meant to start with the Spetsnaz sniper using his M82A1 CQ to disable the ambulance engine, then the driver (if practical) and only then engage any police vehicles.

After the ambulance loses power, the OpFor truck cuts it off, hopefully resulting in a relatively soft stop, especially as the ambulance will hopefully be going at a fairly modest speed, in case they mean to turn at this corner (50/50 chance). Ideally, the OpFor shooters can then move in on foot to enter the ambulance and deal with any police in other vehicles they didn't hit in their fire from ambush. If they fail to stop the ambulance at the exact right spot, they have two other vehicles to move to the right area.

[martinl]

Are boat-based escapes off the table?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by martinl

Are boat-based escapes off the table?

Regrettably, the answer to that is probably yes.

None of the OpFor are naval people and they were certainly not recruited for their boating experience. I suppose there is a chance that one of the dozen sicarios has a hobby or used to work on a smuggling boat or something, but if so, the OpFor leader wouldn't know about it, as the dozen shooters are out-of-towners lent to him to do a single job. Events have overtaken him, so he won't do that job now, but as it turns out, the preparations for attacking the PCs will work for this ad hoc rescue operation. In fact, with only slight modifications, so will their extraction plan.

The OpFor already have four cars and two box trucks, but they have no boats. And obtaining boats in the two hours they have since they determined that they'd have to shoot cops seems difficult. I mean, aren't boat rental places closed after 22:00 at night?

[Apollonian]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Regrettably, the answer to that is probably yes.

None of the OpFor are naval people and they were certainly not recruited for their boating experience. I suppose there is a chance that one of the dozen sicarios has a hobby or used to work on a smuggling boat or something, but if so, the OpFor leader wouldn't know about it, as the dozen shooters are out-of-towners lent to him to do a single job. Events have overtaken him, so he won't do that job now, but as it turns out, the preparations for attacking the PCs will work for this ad hoc rescue operation. In fact, with only slight modifications, so will their extraction plan.

The OpFor already have four cars and two box trucks, but they have no boats. And obtaining boats in the two hours they have since they determined that they'd have to shoot cops seems difficult. I mean, aren't boat rental places closed after 22:00 at night?

Looking at the map of Galveston... I'd still think real hard about a boat. By your description, though, the only one likely to have any Boating skill is the Spetsnaz guy. Or maybe the OpFor guy, since boating could be a rich man's hobby. Also, it gives you an excuse to bring a narco sub into the picture.

Is it at all possible for the OpFor to have their getaway cars on Galveston already? Because if so, switching cars a few blocks from the attack seems a lot safer, as long as you can do it away from surveillance cameras.

So... if I were running this scenario, I'd have the OpFor look to ambush the ambulance a little further east, near the 61st St bridge south across Offatts Bayou. Assume the attack is successful. They take off southeast - maybe across the 61st Street bridge, maybe toward the downtown and hospital. Any witnesses see this. Police now have to consider two other exits in addition to I-45: by boat, as mentioned, and by the Bluewater Highway that heads southwest. That last is a toll bridge, though. If OpFor is being exceptionally cute, they "accidentally" leave a marina address in one of the attack cars. Transfer cars on the island (could leave them parked anywhere as long as they were careful about surveillance or home security cameras) and then try to leave via I-45. I'd guess about 15 minutes to do so.

If you want to get extremely cute, there's also a railroad bridge next to I-45. If that's down, they can try to sneak across there, but it seems more cute than good.

Maybe he splits up, has one of the sicario cars head down the Bluewater, then phones in another anonymous tip, betraying them to buy more time. Seems unlikely to work, though...

[Anaraxes]

Late to the party, but:

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

... the Interstate highway system... Where the money starts out from decides where the legal authority ends up with.

That's not the case, at least as far as the law enforcement topic of the early part of the thread is true. Interstate highways don't have special Federal police. They're part of the state in which they're in, and the state police (and local police) have jurisdiction and responsibility for them. Galveston police or Texas Highway Patrol will respond to problems on Interstates within Galveston, not the FBI.

I believe I-16 goes only from Savannah to Macon, all within Georgia.

True. (Savannah is the third largest port on the East Coast, so there's a good reason to connect it to the rest of the Interstate system. Macon is on I-75, which gets you to the Midwest and Chicago.) Or there's Interstate H1, in Hawaii, which clearly isn't going to go to any other states. Actually crossing a state line isn't a requirement.

[hal]

Icelander

How wedded to the idea of this shoot out are you? I can't help but think that the bad guy, if he has any intelligence, will go about the task entirely differently, and have a very high probability of success as well as doing it quietly enough that he can escape from under the noses of the police by moving at a sedate speed.

Questions that need to be answered: Is Gwen, as a target, willing to cooperate or is she a hostile? If the former, life just got easier. If the latter, well, then it gets a wee bit harder, but since it is night time, it won't be impossible.

Is the knowledge of the path that Gwen's transport team having to travel known with certainty, or is there the potential that the transport team might miss the ambush point? If there is a certainty to where the ambush occurs, then the Bad guy who is leading all of this can do it quietly, use the EMT's habits against them, and overcome the Police escort with little in the way of a blaze of gunfire.

Can the bad guy get his hands on tasers? Can he get his hands on at least Five vehicles? If you answer yes to the questions above, the new revised plan might go like this:

Three vehicles are made to plow into each other MOMENTS before the ambush. This creates an accident scene where the EMT's will happen to pass - more importantly, it will induce them to STOP. Gwen is not in a life threatening situation, while the so called staged accident will have real life people in need of help. That means the ambulance stops. The escorting police stop (assuming they were behind the ambulance in the first place). The "onlookers" start telling the cops "We saw the accident - the truck driver entered the intersection without stopping". That's when the Tasers come out...

Now - take out Gwen, move her to a vehicle, and leave the accident site.

Nice sedate pace, no cops killed, no gun fire, and a nicely extracted Gwen on her way to her fated destination.

If you need real blood, knock an innocent out, maybe leave them in the seat unbuckled as you ram into a car yourself, and presto, one instant victim in need of medical attention.

In the meantime? On the expressway, you have a car driver with his flashers on, pulled over on the side of the road as if disabled. The Bad guys get up to where he is, move the car they used initially for the extraction, leave it by the roadside and leave in the second car. Heck, they might even pour gasoline on the car behind, and torch it. Emergency vehicles like fire engines and such will race to the scene. That spetnaz guy? He could simply open fire on the firemen and their engine, their hoses, etc - and draw ALL attention to the burning car, withdraw on his own and leave quietly.

Or - as I suggested earlier - simply torch the car and move on.

The second car gets off nearby, goes to a parking lot, and a third car becomes the final get away vehicle.

That is probably what I'd want to do in such a way as to keep it low key and successful.

[Varyon]

A problem I see with the TASER suggestion is timing. You need all (both?) EMT’s out of the ambulance, as well as all (up to 6) police officers out of their vehicles, and not actively talking to dispatch about the situation. You then need to incapacitate all (up to 9, although the EMT’s are lower risk) before any of them are able to radio for help or get a shot off (which the officers still at the crime scene are likely to report). I suspect OpFor doesn’t have that sort of coordination, particularly as it sounds kind of thrown-together-at-the-last-minute. And it may be SOP to have one officer stay in the vehicle in contact with dispatch in such a situation, which throws another wrench into things.