Tech Familiarity instead of Tech Level

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Varyon

There's a certain simplicity to this concept that I like. Basically, you can take a number of cultures at fairly different GURPS TL's (due to divergence, superscience/magic, advancement/retardation in specific fields, etc), and just ignore all of the potentially-complicated mechanics of the TL system. You could optionally add in nuances if needed - a particularly complex tech paradigm might be used at -5 if you lack Tech Familiarity, while a particularly simple one might be at only -1 (it may be appropriate to charge more or less, respectively, for such familiarities).

Exactly.

Also, I don't see why people are so insistent that the house rule not be used. It's not like anyone is trying to force you to use it.

[talonthehand]

Originally Posted by maximara

TL;DR - the house rule is a solution in search of a problem that for all practical purposes doesn't exist.

Making things simple for players to understand at a glance is generally a good thing. Given two otherwise identical options, I would take the one in plain text over one using more technical jargon.

Also - I thought you had said earlier that this system wasn't how TL penalties work...wouldn't that qualify it as a house rule that differs from the base system?

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Varyon

There's a certain simplicity to this concept that I like. Basically, you can take a number of cultures at fairly different GURPS TL's (due to divergence, superscience/magic, advancement/retardation in specific fields, etc), and just ignore all of the potentially-complicated mechanics of the TL system. You could optionally add in nuances if needed - a particularly complex tech paradigm might be used at -5 if you lack Tech Familiarity, while a particularly simple one might be at only -1 (it may be appropriate to charge more or less, respectively, for such familiarities).

The actual Tech situation here is a touch complex, and PC's are quite likely to come across tech different from theirs, at least in any game I ran. I'd probably work everything out for my own campaign, but I can certainly see groups of players for whom I'd just say "Its a different tech, flat penalty".

Its a tool, and while its a touch simplistic, I've had players who would wipe their brow and say "Thanks". I've also had players who would enjoy trying to game the tech level complex.

Tools are tools, and picking the right tool for the job is important. This is a simple and blunt tool, but its got situations where its the best thing to do.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Apollonian

I've been noodling around with one of my perennial favorites, converting the Warhammer Fantasy setting, and hit upon the problem of tech levels in that setting.

For those unfamiliar with the setting, there are several major cultures with varying flavors of tech: Humans in the Empire and its satellite cultures are at TL 4, complete with pikes and puffy sleeves. Brettonians and possibly Kisleve are a medieval TL3 and the Nords are a chaos-tainted TL2. But the Dwarfs are at least TL4 and probably TL5 in some areas, while the High and Dark Elves look like TL3 but function somewhere higher thanks to magic and/or super high skill levels. Orcs, goblins, and wood elves are probably TL2, but again, have weird outliers due to magic or orcy weirdness. Skaven are a mess on their own. And then there are the Lizardmen, who are ostensibly TL1 but get a very large number of plusses from being masters of magic.

So instead of just slapping each culture with a TL and then the usual raft of modifiers, I'll adopt Tech Familiarity, much like the existing Cultural Familiarity. (This is part of my on-going effort to reduce the player-facing complexity in my games.) Thus, we'll have:

Imperial Technology: Functions in most ways as TL4, though medicine is riskier. A little bit of magical or divine intervention is expected. High tech stuff includes magically enhanced clockwork and black powder, and there are bleeding edge steam machines. (defaults to Dwarfish Technology at -2 unless magic is involved, in which case it is at -4)

Brettonian Technology: Very constrained to the TL3 high medieval paradigm. If you wouldn't see it in a story with shining, full-plate Knights and muddy, grotty peasants, you don't get it. Not innovative. Medicine and agriculture are surprisingly effective as long as everyone involved is chivalrous enough to please the Lady of the Lake.

Nordic Technology: Barbarians + Chaos taint. Pretty solidly TL2, with an edge in TL3 weapons and armor. Stupid "survival of the fittest" philosophies actually work, thanks to the influence of Chaos.

Skaven Technology: Allegedly TL3, but with clan-based exceptions fueled by Warpstone, mad "science" and magic.

And so on.

Still got to work out some details, of course. Any thoughts on unintended consequences of this house rule?

First let's look at the intended consequences. With Cultural Familiarity you spend 1 point to eliminate -3 skill and reaction penalty. So basically it's a Perk that eliminates a -3 penalty to skills like armory and farmer. I don't see a problem. One thing to bear in mind however, is that the mental image of a knight in shining full plate armor actually probably is TL 4 even if they don't have book binding and telescopes.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

I used to know a retired Hmong warrior that was transported to the states to take a course in air coordination. Presumably he was reasonably effective at that but I doubt he was ever therefore capable of designing a Phantom.

Totally different skills. Air coordination would fall under Strategy (air coordination) and is not a TL skill. Designing a Phantom on the other hand is Engineer which is a TL skill.

I should point out that Strategy would cover Sun Tzu's Art of War written at TL2-3 and yet totally viable at at higher TLs.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

First let's look at the intended consequences. With Cultural Familiarity you spend 1 point to eliminate -3 skill and reaction penalty. So basically it's a Perk that eliminates a -3 penalty to skills like armory and farmer. I don't see a problem. One thing to bear in mind however, is that the mental image of a knight in shining full plate armor actually probably is TL 4 even if they don't have book binding and telescopes.

Right. In fact, the general image of Camelot itself is a wild mixture of TL2 though 4.

[Phil Masters]

Umm, honestly, for this purpose, I'd swipe an idea from Dungeon Fantasy (Warhammer's spiritual second cousin, after all) and drop tech levels altogether. Wacky adventure-fantasy has been smooshing technologies from different dates because of the rule of cool ever since Robert E Howard, if not longer, and one never does see TL2 barbarians going "wot dat?" at stagecoaches. I'm no expert on Warhammer,* but I never have the impression that tech variations are much of an issue for anyone in the setting. Use the occasional familiarity penalty for specific items of gear if it makes you feel better.





*Honestly, you co-write and edit one book for the line...

[Ashtagon]

You could just say that most WH societies are TL3, with Skaven being TL3+1(skaven) and the empire being TL3+1(Reik). Characters can then purchase TL-dependent skills at either TL3 or TL3+1(whatever). Arguably, the Reik's steam tanks are made using Engineer/TL3+2(Reik).

[Arguably, the Reik's tech is real-world default, and so should be marked as TL4 rather than TL3+1(Reik). However, since no genuine TL4+ nation exists outside of the Reik, it has the same practical effect in rules terms to call it TL3+1(Reik). IN any case, their TL5-equivalent steam tanks are certainly variant technology that would have a real-world TL5 engineer scratching his head].