Tech Familiarity instead of Tech Level

[draxdeveloper]

Hum... It seems to me that would add complexity instead of reducing. It makes sense but again, it will add a layer of complexity.
After all, by the rule, you just need to choose the TL level of the setting... I would put it as TL 3 or TL 4.

[dataweaver]

I rather like the idea, as long as the tech differences are mostly lateral in nature; and since the only TLs you cite are between 2 and 5, with each “tech profile” having a mix, that seems to be the case.

[hal]

One thing that might be worth considering is treating each "tech" difference as a "technique" that can be purchased to offset the tech penalties.

Someone who has been around for when electronics used Vacuum Tubes and then learned to use modern electronics with resisters etc - would have been around to use basic skills, but using older antiquidated techniques or equipment would have been something they gained just by living through it and using it.

I would also suggest that the skill penalty for tech level difference can never be bought off entirely, but that it rest at -2 as the best hope. Why? If you don't use something day in and day out, you sort of lose familiarity with it. A -2 penalty for unfamiliarity should cover it nicely.

Just a thought.

[scc]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

I rather like the idea, as long as the tech differences are mostly lateral in nature; and since the only TLs you cite are between 2 and 5, with each “tech profile” having a mix, that seems to be the case.

This function is already covered by the divergent technology rules. There might be something needed for when cultures have the same TL, but have so little contact they implement it differently, like how the Romulans in Star Trek don't use wrap cores but rather Artificial quantum singularitys.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by scc

This function is already covered by the divergent technology rules. There might be something needed for when cultures have the same TL, but have so little contact they implement it differently, like how the Romulans in Star Trek don't use wrap cores but rather Artificial quantum singularitys.

Right. But the idea here is to simplify the player's experience. The player doesn't need to mess with “higher tech”, “lower tech”, or “divergent tech”; all he needs to deal with is “same tech” or “different tech”. It's not a generic, universal tool; is designed for a very particular case. But in that case, I think it can do very well.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Right. But the idea here is to simplify the player's experience. The player doesn't need to mess with “higher tech”, “lower tech”, or “divergent tech”; all he needs to deal with is “same tech” or “different tech”. It's not a generic, universal tool; is designed for a very particular case. But in that case, I think it can do very well.

But how does this proposal differ from the already existing "Borrowed (familiar) technologies" that is built into the GURPS 4e tech Level system? In short, why reinvent the wheel?

Using your descriptions and standard Basic Set we get this:

Imperial Technology: TL4-5 (Medicine 3-4)

Brettonian Technology: TL3 or TL3/4-5 (depending on how regually they run into Imperial Technology)

Nordic Technology: TL2 (weapons and armor TL3) (again just slap /4-5 at the end if they regularity handle Imperial Technology)

Skaven Technology: TL3^. If you throw in GURPS Fantasy its ETL could be higher though its mundane TL would still be a 3. (again just slap /4-5 at the end if they regularity handle Imperial Technology)

[dataweaver]

The difference is that the players don't have to concern themselves with any of that: all they need to concern themselves with is: is it Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven? If you're familiar with it, no penalty; if not, -3 penalty.

[AlexanderHowl]

The problem with that is it ignores the Tech penalties. A TL2 armorer who tries to fix a TL5 firearm using TL2 tools is probably suffering a -15 to skill. Conversely, a TL5 armorer who tries to fix a TL5 firearm using TL2 tools is probably only suffering a -3 to skill. Tech level is important because it represents accumulated knowledge, not just a tool set.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

The difference is that the players don't have to concern themselves with any of that: all they need to concern themselves with is: is it Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven? If you're familiar with it, no penalty; if not, -3 penalty.

Uh that is not how the penalties work. If the skill is based on IQ it is -5 for each +1TL, -1 for -1TL and -2 for each additional -1TL if an IQ based skill (DX based tech skill are a flat -1 for higher or lower TL)

Also, familiarity penalties are cumulative with TL penalties.

For example a TL9 Surgeon is forced to use a TL7 scalpel. He is at -5 to his skill (-3 for the two TL difference and an additional -2 for an unfamiliar instrument). The inverse is far worse as a TL7 Surgeon would be at a staggering -12 to skill (-10 for the two TL difference and an additional -2 for an unfamiliar instrument)

If either of these surgeons are dealing with physiology differences add yet more familiarity penalties to the pile (there are a host of equipment penalties that are relevant at higher TLs but at TL5 or lower we can safely ignore them as a surgeon didn't really have much in the way of equipment.)

Originally Posted by dataweaver

The difference is that the players don't have to concern themselves with any of that: all they need to concern themselves with is: is it Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven? If you're familiar with it, no penalty; if not, -3 penalty.

Which is basically how the already existing Borrowed (familiar) technologies does. "A society can be familiar with technology
that it does not itself possess. This is frequently the case for low-tech societies with high-tech neighbors, and for colonies." (B513)

So TL(whatever)/4-5 (Medicine 3-4) solves this issue with players not having to worry about what the Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven tech is. If they have regularly seen/used it then they are at no penalty to use it. Now repairing it might be an issue but odds are they will simply have the item repaired by the local blacksmith who likely has picked up the needed variations of the TL skills.

Step back and ask yourself - just what TL based skills will the players actually use and what TL skills are more likely to be in the hands of NPCs?

[maximara]

Originally Posted by draxdeveloper

Hum... It seems to me that would add complexity instead of reducing. It makes sense but again, it will add a layer of complexity.
After all, by the rule, you just need to choose the TL level of the setting... I would put it as TL 3 or TL 4.

Don't forget that the TL level of the setting doesn't have to be uniform across the board. The majority of fantasy settings have Split Technologies and/or Divergent Technologies. Depending on communication and trade Borrowed (familiar) Technologies may abound as well.

If fact, looking at all the options for TL in GURPS 4e I'm not sure just what is being added with this Tech Familiarity idea that some combination of Split, Divergent, and Borrowed TL doesn't cover.

And then there is Equivalent TL where magic and/or superscience where the TL functions as it was much higher then it actually is. D&D's Spelljammer has Spacetravel ETL 9 for example but in many respect its mundane TL is in the 3-4 range.