Tech Familiarity instead of Tech Level

[Apollonian]

I've been noodling around with one of my perennial favorites, converting the Warhammer Fantasy setting, and hit upon the problem of tech levels in that setting.

For those unfamiliar with the setting, there are several major cultures with varying flavors of tech: Humans in the Empire and its satellite cultures are at TL 4, complete with pikes and puffy sleeves. Brettonians and possibly Kisleve are a medieval TL3 and the Nords are a chaos-tainted TL2. But the Dwarfs are at least TL4 and probably TL5 in some areas, while the High and Dark Elves look like TL3 but function somewhere higher thanks to magic and/or super high skill levels. Orcs, goblins, and wood elves are probably TL2, but again, have weird outliers due to magic or orcy weirdness. Skaven are a mess on their own. And then there are the Lizardmen, who are ostensibly TL1 but get a very large number of plusses from being masters of magic.

So instead of just slapping each culture with a TL and then the usual raft of modifiers, I'll adopt Tech Familiarity, much like the existing Cultural Familiarity. (This is part of my on-going effort to reduce the player-facing complexity in my games.) Thus, we'll have:

Imperial Technology: Functions in most ways as TL4, though medicine is riskier. A little bit of magical or divine intervention is expected. High tech stuff includes magically enhanced clockwork and black powder, and there are bleeding edge steam machines. (defaults to Dwarfish Technology at -2 unless magic is involved, in which case it is at -4)

Brettonian Technology: Very constrained to the TL3 high medieval paradigm. If you wouldn't see it in a story with shining, full-plate Knights and muddy, grotty peasants, you don't get it. Not innovative. Medicine and agriculture are surprisingly effective as long as everyone involved is chivalrous enough to please the Lady of the Lake.

Nordic Technology: Barbarians + Chaos taint. Pretty solidly TL2, with an edge in TL3 weapons and armor. Stupid "survival of the fittest" philosophies actually work, thanks to the influence of Chaos.

Skaven Technology: Allegedly TL3, but with clan-based exceptions fueled by Warpstone, mad "science" and magic.

And so on.

Still got to work out some details, of course. Any thoughts on unintended consequences of this house rule?

[draxdeveloper]

Hum... It seems to me that would add complexity instead of reducing. It makes sense but again, it will add a layer of complexity.
After all, by the rule, you just need to choose the TL level of the setting... I would put it as TL 3 or TL 4.

[dataweaver]

I rather like the idea, as long as the tech differences are mostly lateral in nature; and since the only TLs you cite are between 2 and 5, with each “tech profile” having a mix, that seems to be the case.

[hal]

One thing that might be worth considering is treating each "tech" difference as a "technique" that can be purchased to offset the tech penalties.

Someone who has been around for when electronics used Vacuum Tubes and then learned to use modern electronics with resisters etc - would have been around to use basic skills, but using older antiquidated techniques or equipment would have been something they gained just by living through it and using it.

I would also suggest that the skill penalty for tech level difference can never be bought off entirely, but that it rest at -2 as the best hope. Why? If you don't use something day in and day out, you sort of lose familiarity with it. A -2 penalty for unfamiliarity should cover it nicely.

Just a thought.

[scc]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

I rather like the idea, as long as the tech differences are mostly lateral in nature; and since the only TLs you cite are between 2 and 5, with each “tech profile” having a mix, that seems to be the case.

This function is already covered by the divergent technology rules. There might be something needed for when cultures have the same TL, but have so little contact they implement it differently, like how the Romulans in Star Trek don't use wrap cores but rather Artificial quantum singularitys.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Apollonian

I've been noodling around with one of my perennial favorites, converting the Warhammer Fantasy setting, and hit upon the problem of tech levels in that setting.

For those unfamiliar with the setting, there are several major cultures with varying flavors of tech: Humans in the Empire and its satellite cultures are at TL 4, complete with pikes and puffy sleeves. Brettonians and possibly Kisleve are a medieval TL3 and the Nords are a chaos-tainted TL2. But the Dwarfs are at least TL4 and probably TL5 in some areas, while the High and Dark Elves look like TL3 but function somewhere higher thanks to magic and/or super high skill levels. Orcs, goblins, and wood elves are probably TL2, but again, have weird outliers due to magic or orcy weirdness. Skaven are a mess on their own. And then there are the Lizardmen, who are ostensibly TL1 but get a very large number of plusses from being masters of magic.

You seemed to have ignored four built-in at the start mechanics that address the issues you are concerned with:

Borderline technology: TLOld-TLNew. Example: TL5-6. For societies in transition from one tech level to another.

Split technologies: TLPrimary (fields, TLSecondary). Example: TL8 (Communications TL7, Medical TL9). For societies more or less advanced in some fields.

Borrowed (familiar) technologies: TLKnown/Familiar. Example: TL1/2 (Bronze Age society familiar with Iron Age technology). For societies familiar with other level of technologies but not able (or willing) to replicate them.

Divergent Technology: TL(Historical+Divergent). Example: TL(5+1) is a TL6, with historical Earth-like TL5, but somewhat different TL6 (same effects, different form). For alternate worlds which "look" different. Characters not used to truely divergent technology suffer a -2 penalty.

GURPS Fantasy introduced the concept of Equivalent TL which is the TL appears to be due to Magic or Superscience. It may or may not actually be that TL. "Look at a number of commonly used spells, assign them to approximate TL equivalents, and see if these cluster around one or two TLs as usually defined; if so, use a rough equivalent TL in that range. If that doesn’t work, the TL concept may not fit the setting." It is advised that the GM should avoid assuming the setting will simply be 'just like TLx but with wizards'.

D&D's Spelljammer has interplanetary travel (normally TL9) via magic and the average D&D world is 3-4 with magical improvements that kick its effective TL up a bit. Taking this all together gets you ETL: (3+3)^ to (4+2)^; Space travel (3+6)^ to (4+5)^

More details and examples can be found at the GURPS wiki. Use Tech Level as the starting point as there are links to many of the above in that article.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by draxdeveloper

Hum... It seems to me that would add complexity instead of reducing. It makes sense but again, it will add a layer of complexity.
After all, by the rule, you just need to choose the TL level of the setting... I would put it as TL 3 or TL 4.

Don't forget that the TL level of the setting doesn't have to be uniform across the board. The majority of fantasy settings have Split Technologies and/or Divergent Technologies. Depending on communication and trade Borrowed (familiar) Technologies may abound as well.

If fact, looking at all the options for TL in GURPS 4e I'm not sure just what is being added with this Tech Familiarity idea that some combination of Split, Divergent, and Borrowed TL doesn't cover.

And then there is Equivalent TL where magic and/or superscience where the TL functions as it was much higher then it actually is. D&D's Spelljammer has Spacetravel ETL 9 for example but in many respect its mundane TL is in the 3-4 range.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by scc

This function is already covered by the divergent technology rules. There might be something needed for when cultures have the same TL, but have so little contact they implement it differently, like how the Romulans in Star Trek don't use wrap cores but rather Artificial quantum singularitys.

Right. But the idea here is to simplify the player's experience. The player doesn't need to mess with “higher tech”, “lower tech”, or “divergent tech”; all he needs to deal with is “same tech” or “different tech”. It's not a generic, universal tool; is designed for a very particular case. But in that case, I think it can do very well.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Right. But the idea here is to simplify the player's experience. The player doesn't need to mess with “higher tech”, “lower tech”, or “divergent tech”; all he needs to deal with is “same tech” or “different tech”. It's not a generic, universal tool; is designed for a very particular case. But in that case, I think it can do very well.

But how does this proposal differ from the already existing "Borrowed (familiar) technologies" that is built into the GURPS 4e tech Level system? In short, why reinvent the wheel?

Using your descriptions and standard Basic Set we get this:

Imperial Technology: TL4-5 (Medicine 3-4)

Brettonian Technology: TL3 or TL3/4-5 (depending on how regually they run into Imperial Technology)

Nordic Technology: TL2 (weapons and armor TL3) (again just slap /4-5 at the end if they regularity handle Imperial Technology)

Skaven Technology: TL3^. If you throw in GURPS Fantasy its ETL could be higher though its mundane TL would still be a 3. (again just slap /4-5 at the end if they regularity handle Imperial Technology)

[dataweaver]

The difference is that the players don't have to concern themselves with any of that: all they need to concern themselves with is: is it Imperial, Brettonian, Nordic, or Skaven? If you're familiar with it, no penalty; if not, -3 penalty.