New Modification / Advantage

[TJA]

Multiplied Strength

Each level of Multiplied Strength doubles your level of ST and HP. This costs 100p per level of Multiplied Strength.
You can also multiply your level of ST and HP by 1.5 for 58p or multiply your level of ST and HP by 1.25 for 32p. You can freely mix those levels of multiplication.
You can modify regular ST (incl. HP), Lifting ST or Striking ST seperately with Multiplied Strength. For Lifting ST and Striking ST, this costs 16p for Multiplication with 1.25, 29p for Multiplication with 1.5 or 50p for Multiplication with 2 per level.

Limitation: ST-only. You do not get increased HP from increased ST. This is a -25% limitation and only applicable to regular ST, not Lifting or Striking ST.

Examples:

A Super with base ST of 12 buys 2 levels of Multiplied ST at 50p each. This gives ST and HP at 27 for a total of 100p. Then he adds one level of Multiplied ST with the limitation ST-only for 75p. This give ST 54 and HP 27 for a total of 175p.

The Hulk, with a normal ST of 10, buys 9 levels of Modified ST at 50p each and get a whooping ST and HP of 384 for 450p.


What do you think?
It feels good to me - would make building Supers (and Immortals :-) much more easy ...
I´m not sure that -25% is enought for the limitation ST-only- maybe this should be -50% ?!?

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by TJA

What do you think?
It feels good to me - would make building Supers (and Immortals :-) much more easy ...

I think GURPS dropped this advantage a long time ago (see old copies of Aliens, Fantasy Folk, and I think Supers). Didn't like it much then, don't like it much now.

Basically you're trying to find an excuse to allow very high ST at a much lower cost. Is there any reason having the ST to lift a tank or a building shouldn't cost thousands of points?

Originally Posted by TJA

You can freely mix both levels of multiplication.

Even within the rules as you lay them out this is a not very well thought out rule. If you can freely take two levels of x1.5 for 100 points, giving a final multiplier of x2.25, is there any reason someone would buy the x2 multiplier for 100 points?

[TJA]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Basically you're trying to find an excuse to allow very high ST at a much lower cost. Is there any reason having the ST to lift a tank or a building shouldn't cost thousands of points?

You can buy Basic Speed, Move and Dodge for 60p per level: 40p for DX +2 and 20p for HT +2. This gives 2+2/4 = 1 level of Basic Speed and Move and Dodge.
If you want to fly, you can base off this for 40p and buy Flight.
You could then pay 2p for each additional increase of Move ...
If you want to fly at light-speed:

Arround 300000 km per second ~= 200000ml per second => 12000000 ml per minutes => 720000000 ml per hour.
This is a Move of 360000000 and would cost 720000000 points.

Enought of an example? :-)

OF COURSE we need such a rule!

Because of this, we have Enhanced Move (Air) and Enhanced Move (Space).
It does the some - multiplies your Speed for 10 or 20 points only. A bit to cheap, i think ...

For ST, such a rule would be great as well - but not so cheap! You should not get a benefit from buying it in the early levels. But when you can a realy strong thing, you can use Multiplied Strength then!

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

Even within the rules as you lay them out this is a not very well thought out rule. If you can freely take two levels of x1.5 for 100 points, giving a final multiplier of x2.25, is there any reason someone would buy the x2 multiplier for 100 points?

This just depends on where you start :-)

Also, this helps to reach a special level of ST - with a fixed 2.0 multiplied, it would just not be possible to get to x2.25 ...

And then, Enhanced Move works the same!

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by TJA

Enought of an example? :-)

OF COURSE we need such a rule!

Because of this, we have Enhanced Move (Air) and Enhanced Move (Space).
It does the some - multiplies your Speed for 10 or 20 points only. A bit to cheap, i think ...

For ST, such a rule would be great as well - but not so cheap! You should not get a benefit from buying it in the early levels. But when you can a realy strong thing, you can use Multiplied Strength then!

You're missing the fact that ST already has a multiplier built into it through Basic Lift, which Move (without Enhanced Move) does not. What you're doing is adding another multiplier to ST. You are, in effect, creating Exponential ST rather than the (current) Quad ST. If that's your goal you might as well just say so and make it Exponential in effect by increasing Basic Lift and/or Damage. At least then you'd be honest in the effect you're trying to generate (high levels of Lift or Damage for fewer points).

Originally Posted by TJA

This just depends on where you start :-)

Also, this helps to reach a special level of ST - with a fixed 2.0 multiplied, it would just not be possible to get to x2.25 ...

And then, Enhanced Move works the same!

That's not how Enhanced Move works. Enhanced Move only allows you to buy a single 1/2 level, on top of whatever full levels of Enhanced Move you buy. And Enhanced Move explicetly states that if you want a Move less than the maximum calculated it's just a special effect.

[TJA]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

If that's your goal you might as well just say so and make it Exponential in effect by increasing Basic Lift and/or Damage. At least then you'd be honest in the effect you're trying to generate (high levels of Lift or Damage for fewer points).

Yep, this was my goal.
You are right, i could just calculate the damage i want - for example 40d for 200p - and reverse that to get to the ST needed ...

But this way, i have problems to calculate enhanced levels of lifting ST only.
Also, this is not an official rule as well.

I need to think about this - thanx for the idea! :-)

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

That's not how Enhanced Move works. Enhanced Move only allows you to buy a single 1/2 level, on top of whatever full levels of Enhanced Move you buy. And Enhanced Move explicetly states that if you want a Move less than the maximum calculated it's just a special effect.

Huh?
Please read this Advantage again ;-)
Or do i missunderstand?!?

Enhanced Move doubles your basic Speed for 20p or multiplies it with 1.5 for 10p. You can buy as much level as you want - for example around 27 level to reach the speed of light (read in the examples)!

You can increase your speed by your regular Basic Speed every round until you reach the top-speed that Enhanced Move allows for.

[TJA]

Your idea about basically buying damage over Innate Attack at 5p per 1d is fine, so far ... but has problems i cannot solve:

Try the Hulk again:

Say, we want 40d damage (normaly at around ST 400), this is 200p as an Innate Attack.
But this would be Striking ST only ...

We want him to lift with ST 400 as well ...
The old problem arises again!

We want him to have 400 HP as well ....
The old problem arises again!

There are parts of ST (and HP) that would need *massive* amount of points into them instead of a leveling/multiplying advantage or modifier.

I still think, that such a modifier is more elegant!

[TJA]

The more i think about points and value, the more i come to the conclusion, that for 1000p dedicated in one ability or 1000 levels in it, you should get as much as is possible!

That mean, for 1000p in such an Advantage or Attribute or 1000 levels, you should nearly get whatever level you want.

For speed, the speed of light should be reachable with 1000p or 1000 levels - or even less, as it is currently more cheap.

For ST, that means moving a planet for 1000p (like Superman) or 1000 levels of an ST-modification or something similar hard task.

And so on ...

For that, we need an exponention growth.

Need to think more about this ...

[Skullcrusher]

Originally Posted by TJA

Your idea about basically buying damage over Innate Attack at 5p per 1d is fine, so far ... but has problems i cannot solve:

Try the Hulk again:

Say, we want 40d damage (normaly at around ST 400), this is 200p as an Innate Attack.
But this would be Striking ST only ...

We want him to lift with ST 400 as well ...
The old problem arises again!

We want him to have 400 HP as well ....
The old problem arises again!

There are parts of ST (and HP) that would need *massive* amount of points into them instead of a leveling/multiplying advantage or modifier.

I still think, that such a modifier is more elegant!

The Hulk is over 8 feet tall he would get a SM discount for the strength...Probably only 10% since 8 is a SM of 1 (I think)..Plus the hulk strength is incalculable due to his rage level...although there was antoher thread that showed how to get a cost break for that....

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by TJA

Huh?
Please read this Advantage again ;-)
Or do i missunderstand?!?

Enhanced Move doubles your basic Speed for 20p or multiplies it with 1.5 for 10p. You can buy as much level as you want - for example around 27 level to reach the speed of light (read in the examples)!

You can buy as many levels as you want, but you can only buy one 1/2 level of it.
So you can buy level 6 1/2 levels for 130 pts, multiplying move by 96 (2^6 *1.5). You can't, however, buy thirteen 1/2 levels of it for 130 pts (which would result multiplying your move by 1.5^13=194.6).

[TJA]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

You can buy as many levels as you want, you can only buy one 1/2 level of it though. So you can buy level 6 1/2 levels for 130 pts if you want, but you can't buy thirteen 1/2 levels of it for 130 pts.

Ahhh ...
OK, thanx :-)
Have no books at work and needed to remember :-)

But still, with the NEW costs per Level, this is transparent, as the cost of a resulting level of ST is *nearly* the same!

100p
58p
32p

You get *more* levels of course, but the resulting ST will be *nearly* the same on the same amount of points spend!

100p 32p 58p 100p
ST x1.25 x1x5 x2
10 20.08370301 20.11896426 20
11 20.09207331 22.13086068 22
12 24.10044362 24.14275711 24
13 26.10881392 26.15465353 26
14 28.11718422 28.16654996 28
15 30.12555452 30.17844638 30
16 32.13392482 32.19034281 32
17 34.14229512 34.20223924 34
18 36.15066542 36.21413566 36
19 38.15903573 38.22603209 38
20 40.16740603 40.23792851 40

Is there no way to posting something preformated? I mean with <TAB> and so?!?! :-/