How To Kill a Dragon

[larsdangly]

Originally Posted by hcobb

So the dragon with Strategy moves second, winds up next to exactly one figure and applies a UC V claw slash? Next turn it doesn't matter how many men move next to her as she's flying and therefore unengaged so she can move to be alone with another man that turn?

I might or might not have given her those talents, but yes, I think that is the right application of the rules.

[larsdangly]

Originally Posted by Skarg

If the map positions allow, and that seems like a good move to her, yes.


No, next turn would be a new kettle of fish. If she wins initiative again, or is told to move first then she gets to keep flying, and declare flying over ground figures to avoid engagement if she wants to. But if the ground figures move first and move in a way that gets enough of them in place to Engage her, she won't yet have had her opportunity to change altitude, so she'll be Engaged, but could still use her action when her adjDX comes up to Disengage, if she wanted to.

I believe this is contrary to at least the intent of the aerial combat rules; I would say that she is in the air (that is her mode of movement, whatever her location and altitude), and flying combatants are able to deny engagement to any foe, as per RAW. Thus, it doesn't matter whether she loses initiative the next turn.

[hcobb]

She does want to move second. Flying a foot off the ground denies engagement, but you can still poke her with a sword.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

She does want to move second. Flying a foot off the ground denies engagement, but you can still poke her with a sword.

I don't think flying a foot above the ground does, since the rules explain that the choice of not being engaged or not is about flying over the ground figures.

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I believe this is contrary to at least the intent of the aerial combat rules; I would say that she is in the air (that is her mode of movement, whatever her location and altitude), and flying combatants are able to deny engagement to any foe, as per RAW. Thus, it doesn't matter whether she loses initiative the next turn.

I'm not sure, which is why I posted that thread of questions. To me it comes down to interpreting the line about being able to choose whether to be Engaged or not. It describes it as being because of the ability to fly high enough over grounded figures.

It seems to me that it probably means that if a flier does choose to fly low enough to be Engaged by grounded figures, then it means they can be Engaged not just attacked, and since it's a choice during the flier's movement, at-will Engagement would only seem to have any effect during the flier's next Movement phase - but if they can change their mind at that point for free, then it seems to me it really would have no effect at all ever for a flier to be Engaged by ground figures, and so it would be a poor choice of words - the rules would be much more accurate then to just say fliers can never be engaged by ground figures, but they can be attacked by them if they chose to fly low enough to attack themselves that turn.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Yes, I don't think Melee, as a system, can tolerate having combatants that perform actions in the course of a movement phase (other than special forms of movement like jumping). If you want to keep things moving along in an orderly fashion you should force flyers, mounted figures, vehicles, etc. to end movement specifically where they want to be when their attack to be delivered for that turn, and just note that one of the exceptional engagement rules might apply

One possible solution is to "split" aerial creatures movement into halves -- they can move the first half or less of their MA during normal movement, engage in combat during their action (new Option: Flying Strike, allows one attack without becoming engaged with the target, but the target can strike back as well), and then a "post combat flying movement phase," where the flying creature may move up to the remaining half of their MA. It fits everything into the normal turn sequence, and at the same time clarifies an enormous number of issues with flying creatures. You could allow the flying creature to fly it's full MA during the FIRST movement phase, but if it flies more than half of its MA, then it cannot do a drive-by strike on an opponent. That should resolve most difficulties with this, at least in game terms...

[hcobb]

She's got a ten foot reach with each limb so just reach down and claw one lucky guy's head off.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by hcobb

She's got a ten foot reach with each limb so just reach down and claw one lucky guy's head off.

If she can hit you, you can hit her -- at the very least you might be able to lop off a claw or otherwise inflict some damage. Now if she used her fly-by to breathe fire, that would be different, of course. Some logic needs to be applied too...