How to Adapt Drunken Fighting Skill from 3E to 4E

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Jareth Valar

Martial Arts already has a Technique that sort of does the same thing: Spinning (Attack). It already combines aspects of Feint and Attack in one.

Well, Feint and Dedicated Attack anyway, though you can use techniques to buy off the problems DA causes.

Isn't Spinning Punch / Spinning Kick actually better than feints because people can't use an elevated Feint technique to improve their defense in the quick contest like they can against Feints?

Elevated Feints even work against Beats/Ruses I think, which is really weird. I think it might make more sense to have DX Feints, ST Beats and IQ ruses being separate techniques, and buying them up only helps you in the contest against that particular form of it, rather than all 3 types?

In that line, maybe you should have to roll against Spinning (Attack) to resist Spinning (Attack)? People good at spinning probably understand its timing better.

[Refplace]

Also Deceptive Attack seems like a good fit.

[binn05]

Thank you, everybody, for the input.
We went with the Spinning (Attack) technique modified from prerequisite skill -2 or kick -3 to prerequisite skill-4 or kick-5.

If I understood the rules correctly for creating new techniques...

Spinning Attack base -2/-3, can apply Quick Contest result to the opponent's attack skill (-1), opponent use IQ instead of combat skill (-1).

Did I missed something here?

Also, I show the Drunken Fighting perk to the player, and he liked it too.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Plane

Well, Feint and Dedicated Attack...

What? You mean Deceptive Attack? You can use Deceptive Attack in a Spinning Attack...

Isn't Spinning Punch / Spinning Kick actually better than feints because people can't use an elevated Feint technique to improve their defense in the quick contest like they can against Feints?

Eh... it's a bit of a wash as you can lose a Spinning Attack Quick Contest and increase your foe's defense. So... it's not exactly "better". Failing a Feint just wastes a Maneuver (or an Attack).

Elevated Feints even work against Beats/Ruses I think, which is really weird.

No... because they aren't Feints. The Feint technique specifically only works against feints.

Martial Arts pg 100.
"By the same token, those who know any specialty of the Feint technique (p. 73) may use it to resist feints as well as to execute them."
(emphasis from the original text)

That Ruses and Beats use a Feint maneuver does not actually make them feints.

I think it might make more sense to have DX Feints, ST Beats and IQ ruses being separate techniques...

As the Feint Technique doesn't increase Beats or Ruses, yeah, having techniques for them would be great.

In that line, maybe you should have to roll against Spinning (Attack) to resist Spinning (Attack)? People good at spinning probably understand its timing better.

I'd allow for someone trained in Spinning Attack to add it to their resistance against Spinning Attack, yeah, that does sound right.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

What? You mean Deceptive Attack? You can use Deceptive Attack in a Spinning Attack...

I think he meant Committed Attack, that being a requirement to use Spinning Attack [All-out Attack is also an option, but that generally takes it up from problematic straight to suicidal].

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

What? You mean Deceptive Attack? You can use Deceptive Attack in a Spinning Attack...

Originally Posted by ravenfish

I think he meant Committed Attack, that being a requirement to use Spinning Attack [All-out Attack is also an option, but that generally takes it up from problematic straight to suicidal].

I meant use Deceptive Attacks overall as part of the style.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I meant use Deceptive Attacks overall as part of the style.

I'm questioning Plane's saying "Dedicated Attack".

[Maz]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

No... because they aren't Feints. The Feint technique specifically only works against feints.

Martial Arts pg 100.
"By the same token, those who know any specialty of the Feint technique (p. 73) may use it to resist feints as well as to execute them."
(emphasis from the original text)

That Ruses and Beats use a Feint maneuver does not actually make them feints.

Yes. They are.
Martial Arts. p. 73 (the actual description of the Feint Technique):
"Feint includes knowledge of Beats (pp. 100-101) and
Ruses (p. 101). Make a STbased roll to attempt a Beat or
to use ST to resist one, an IQbased roll to try a Ruse, or a
Per-based roll to use Per to resist a Ruse".

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Maz

Yes. They are.
Martial Arts. p. 73 (the actual description of the Feint Technique):
"Feint includes knowledge of Beats (pp. 100-101) and
Ruses (p. 101). Make a STbased roll to attempt a Beat or
to use ST to resist one, an IQbased roll to try a Ruse, or a
Per-based roll to use Per to resist a Ruse".

Good catch, I missed that. Yeah, I'd separate them out, they're all very different things.