Strength production for enchanting

[Scintillant]

The only note I see that really addresses this is that apprentices can each provide only 25 ST/day via Aid spells (ITL, pg 155). That seems low considering that a ST 8 DX 10 apprentice could generate at least 32 on average over an 8-hour workday (assume total of 9 spells cast with 50% failure rate so waste 5 points per 8-hour shift). It also presumes all apprentices have the Aid spell, when many full-fledged Wizards don't. Maybe they choose to forget it when they graduate...This also seems to assume there are plenty of apprentices about...

Also doesn't seem to be any mention of what the wizard(s) themselves can contribute so I guess that's up to each wizard to decide based on their ST, powerstone(s), staff, Drain spells, whatever, etc.

Have I understood this process correctly? What if you assume a 10 or 12 hour workday instead of a very ahistorical 8 hour day?

[hcobb]

Page 164: "plus from 5 to 25 ST for the wizard himself to contribute"

[Scintillant]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Page 164: "plus from 5 to 25 ST for the wizard himself to contribute"

Right you are hcobb, thanks for finding that. Too bad it makes even less sense that the rule for apprentices. Guess it's down to house rules then.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Scintillant

The only note I see that really addresses this is that apprentices can each provide only 25 ST/day via Aid spells (ITL, pg 155). That seems low considering that a ST 8 DX 10 apprentice could generate at least 32 on average over an 8-hour workday (assume total of 9 spells cast with 50% failure rate so waste 5 points per 8-hour shift).

One thing that isn't specified is exactly when the ST will be required during each day's shift, and in what increments it is needed.

* If the ST is only needed some time after the day has begun, and before that, they need to be helping doing other tasks, then you can't count all of the 8 hours as resting time.

* If the Aid ST is needed in small 1-ST aid spells at various times throughout the day's work enchanting an item, then it also reduces the efficiency down to the rate at which they make their spell rolls.

So even if you have a generic ST 10 DX 10 IQ 10 apprentice, and even if he starts casting Aid spells right at the start of work, and the work schedule accommodates him resting at an even rate (which I don't think it does, especially because I think they are needed for other tasks besides casting Aid, and the schedule probably varies), then I get 9 ST + 32 ST = 41 ST potential, but casting it 1 point at a time would give an average yield of 20.5 ST per day, well under the allowance.

Maybe in such cases those apprentices do end up doing overtime, or maybe it's somewhere in-between.

Originally Posted by Scintillant

It also presumes all apprentices have the Aid spell, when many full-fledged Wizards don't. Maybe they choose to forget it when they graduate...This also seems to assume there are plenty of apprentices about...

The Aid spell is one of the most useful spells there is, especially for organized groups of wizards (high-IQ wizards casting powerful spells with Aided ST and DX) and therefore for apprentices, for whom it is a job requirement (see the Job table).

Even for very capable wizards who often operate alone, it's a very useful spell to have. In original TFT (or people using some house rules) some might choose to forget it, but in the new (somewhat problematic in some ways) TFT there would be no incentive to intentionally forget a spell.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Skarg

The Aid spell is one of the most useful spells there is, especially for organized groups of wizards (high-IQ wizards casting powerful spells with Aided ST and DX) and therefore for apprentices, for whom it is a job requirement (see the Job table).

I house ruled the rule of five effect on Aid here: http://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#Spells

[Scintillant]

Thanks all for the thoughtful responses to my questions.

Originally Posted by hcobb

I house ruled the rule of five effect on Aid here: http://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#Spells

My personal favorite among your house rules:

Alchemists' Potions -pg 147
elves' toenails of sufficient length and quality have gotten rarer (now that they've switched to sandals) and are now $32/pound, not kg.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

I house ruled the rule of five effect on Aid here: http://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#Spells

Yes, I saw that before in your house rules, and I very much like that.

Even with it, Aid would still be one of the most useful spells. It's essential for casting high-ST spells, and for multiplying the effectiveness of high-IQ casters, both by increasing their DX, and by allowing them to use ST on spells at the rate that the Aid-ers can cast and rest up ST, not on what he can do himself.

And it's quite useful in other situations, even when limited by the rule of 5.

If you don't limit it, it's even more powerful... and was the key to quite a few super-high-powered magical actions in our old TFT games.

Enough so that I tend to question the wisdom (or just their experience, or imagination) of wizards who don't know the Aid spell.

[hcobb]

If you want to ensure that all wizards get Aid then change it like this:

Aided ST, DX or IQ lasts for the next two actions (can never total more than 5 points between the three and can't bring adjDX above 14) but aided Mana lasts for a minute or until used up. If a figure's current ST is less than one but their current ST + Mana is greater than zero then they are too weak to stand on their own (in addition to being at -3 DX for weakness), but are conscious and even able to sit up if they have something to lean against.

The human body is unable to retain each point of Mana for more than a minute which is why wizards invented powerstones and staffs, but this stored Mana must be drawn into the body for spellcasting or staying alive as above.

Note that a figure uses Mana before fatigue when casting and can recast Mana as Aid Mana to kite it along.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

If you want to ensure that all wizards get Aid then change it like this:

I don't have any such desire. I was just saying that it seems like a spell pretty much every wizard would have good uses for and makes sense it would be encouraged by wizards' guilds, even in your most limited house-rule version, which I like.

Originally Posted by hcobb

The human body is unable to retain each point of Mana for more than a minute which is why wizards invented powerstones and staffs, ...

It seems to me that powerstones and staff-mana both have their own important applications regardless of which version of the Aid spell is available.

Originally Posted by hcobb

Note that a figure uses Mana before fatigue when casting and can recast Mana as Aid Mana to kite it along.

I think a GM should reflect long and hard before allowing Mana from Aid spells to hang around for a minute, let alone if it can be kited along. Seems to me that would enable quite a few powerful tactics (e.g. pumping up wizards before initiating combat).