Confused by the FAQ on Afflictions

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by naloth

I just don't see how it makes sense to base the cost of that. You're actually making the Affliction cheaper while making it potentially more useful.

TK w/Uncontrollable is the "poltergeist" example in Powers, so it's already covered in a better way anyway.

TK w/uncontrollable and always on would not be flight with uncontrollable and always on. One is centered on the TK wielder, and moves objects. The other is centered on the flyer and moves the flyer. The Wizard’s disks are fire-and-forget. He does not have to remain in range of the target. The “control” is on the target’s side, but there are limitations on the afflicted advantage.
Uncontrollable TK, always on, plus independant, maybe, but it would have no affliction, and Bently can spam antigravity disks all day, while TK isn’t infinitely parallelizable and still has a limited range, even while independant. Afflicted flight is the simplest model.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Culture20

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All those sound good reasons, why it's not a cheap ability that you can spam.

TK works best as a cost comparison of what you could otherwise do, even if you model if differently. If you can throw people to orbit via flight at a fraction of the cost that it would take to TK them across the room, something is out of proportion.

You can actually model it very easily as a TK "throw" by figuring out how far "up" (basically 1/2 horizontal distance) they would fall and moving them at either a constant velocity or a reversed velocity as a special effect.

Afflicted flight is the simplest model.

Except that Affliction doesn't say anything about letting you take initial or subsequent maneuvers on the target's behalf, without which no movement will occur. Perhaps you were going to follow it up with a Mind Control effect such as "float foolishly upwards"?

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by naloth

All those sound good reasons, why it's not a cheap ability that you can spam.

TK works best as a cost comparison of what you could otherwise do, even if you model if differently. If you can throw people to orbit via flight at a fraction of the cost that it would take to TK them across the room, something is out of proportion.

You can actually model it very easily as a TK "throw" by figuring out how far "up" (basically 1/2 horizontal distance) they would fall and moving them at either a constant velocity or a reversed velocity as a special effect.

Except that Affliction doesn't say anything about letting you take initial or subsequent maneuvers on the target's behalf, without which no movement will occur. Perhaps you were going to follow it up with a Mind Control effect such as "float foolishly upwards"?

I’m assuming you’re misinterpreting me. I’m talking about an ability which neither the initiator (afflictor) nor the affected (afflicted) controls once started. There have been instances of afflicted victims gaining control of the disks, and controlling the flight.
Afflicted uncontrollable TK wouldn’t work because that would make the target have a poltergeist which moves objects around them. Generic uncontrollable TK sans affliction also doesn’t work because there’s no way to say “it only affects this person, and when I say so”. Afflicted Flight with limitations of always on and uncontrollable is the ability I’m describing, to a T. That it costs less points has no bearing on the matter.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Culture20

I’m assuming you’re misinterpreting me.

I just disagree with your series of assumptions. I don't see them as backed up by the rules.

I’m talking about an ability which neither the initiator (afflictor) nor the affected (afflicted) controls once started. There have been instances of afflicted victims gaining control of the disks, and controlling the flight.

You've made an assumption that having Flight as an advantage obligates you to move or that it giving it allows either you or the Afflictor to create later movement. You don't "activate" Flight, make a roll, and end up in a place like Warp. Move takes place as a maneuver, and flight gives you another move type and speed you can use to get there.

As for the "gaining control of disks", there are a number of ways to represent that on any ability. In many cases fiddling with high tech stuff (Spidey, Mr Fantastic) is part of their power shtick. In other cases, it could be a limitation that an IQ roll can safely disengage and let you escape without going into orbit.

Afflicted uncontrollable TK wouldn’t work because that would make the target have a poltergeist which moves objects around them. Generic uncontrollable TK sans affliction also doesn’t work because there’s no way to say “it only affects this person, and when I say so”.

I told you would I would base it off of, which wouldn't be uncontrollable anything. (Uncontrollable was for a poltergeist effect, not a predictable, straight line, move that occurs on demand).

Afflicted Flight with limitations of always on and uncontrollable is the ability I’m describing, to a T. That it costs less points has no bearing on the matter.

You can play it that way if you like, but it doesn't pass any of the tests.

Uncontrollable is defined as under GM's control if you fail a stress roll, and only "potentially embarrassing, but not dangerous" for Flight. Flying off in towards space in a predictable effect that happens on command, without any stress roles doesn't match that to any letter including T.

Limitations which don't reduce the effectiveness of an ability aren't valid limitations. It sounds like you are using Uncontrollable to justify moving the target against his will in later turns which would be a massive, unrelated upgrade.

As for cost comparison, that's what point systems are for. Coming up with a questionable way to do something that's done similarly elsewhere as a primary ability for cheaper should always be questioned. Is there a better ability than TK to use to compare what it would usually cost to throw someone around at a range?

[Plane]

I'm not sure if you can even make the Advantage: X enhancement cheaper by adding Unconscious+Uncontrollable to the underlying advantage which determines its cost (points*10=%), for non-instant abilities which last MoF minutes. It almost seems like they would work that way by default?

I believe it says something like if the advantage is switchable, it remains switched on, not that the Afflictor can choose to switch it on and off at a whim (at best they could switch it off once via Cancellatio if they have that enhancement and hit you with the Cancellation Ray)

Flight is already switched on by default, I think, and enhancing it with switchability probably is pointless unless you were wanting some Temporary Disadvantages discounts.

The way non-beneficial Affliction works with advantages that are not instant or passive really needs some illustrative examples regarding who is in control, and how.

Maybe a good compromise would be that Air Move can only be utilized if BOTH the afflictor and the target take a Move maneuver in tandem, cooperatively?