Return of the MNSH (Murderous Ninja Sniper Halfling)

[larsdangly]

Love your whip/javelin zoro!

I've had players take a lasso or whatever for fun, but they were all 'normal' sorts of PCs with a balanced set of abilities and stats rather than a monster engineered around delivering the perfect attack at range 10 hexes or whatever. I think the game doesn't really have any balance problems for these sorts of 'real world' PCs

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I've had players take a lasso or whatever for fun, but they were all 'normal' sorts of PCs with a balanced set of abilities and stats rather than a monster engineered around delivering the perfect attack at range 10 hexes or whatever. I think the game doesn't really have any balance problems for these sorts of 'real world' PCs

Almost ANY rules/stats problem can be dismissed or ignored by players who don't know/care/notice, or who don't use them in play. All that says is that you don't have to use those things. It doesn't mean they're not worth discussing and fixing/house-ruling to get a version that does not have those problems. Also, the more you understand a problem, the more you can avoid or rule against it before it becomes a problem. If a GM does not understand a problem and then it shows up in play, it can mess up their games before they realize it.

I too have had zero MNSH's in actual campaign play, and I only remember one significant sha-ken user, who was moderate and unique enough (and saw little enough use in play) that it didn't become a big problem. IIRC, she settled down and mostly retired with Nerp the miner's pick & rope/lasso-user, who got just enough play to also seem like a fun creative character without abusing the lasso powers too much.

But I would prefer to explore, discuss, and fix the rules so they don't have inappropriate exploits, than dismissing them. I'd like a lasso-using character or a sha-ken specialist to be something people can try out and get reasonable results from, without results that are way too good and massacre their victims because the rules are broken.

It seems to me it should not be a powerful tactic to have all your melee fighters put 1 point in Lasso and be able to start a battle by toppling and trussing up most of their foes, and then moving in to slaughter them as they're still messing with ropes. I don't think a fix is rocket science, either. Something like giving a target a 3/DX roll to avoid a lasso/whip/bolas they can see coming, unless they're surprised and have no idea what to do. And limiting sha-ken damage as I mentioned.

[larsdangly]

I think it is pretty obvious a lasso should be treated as a thrown weapon with respect to range modifiers, which would go a long way to addressing your concerns

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

I think it is pretty obvious a lasso should be treated as a thrown weapon with respect to range modifiers, which would go a long way to addressing your concerns

Not nearly long enough. But yes, it does seem obvious lasso should use thrown weapon range penalties.

To my mind the problem is not just balance, but that there are no countermeasures/defense, and no taking into account what the target's abilities are like. They're just out of action for 3 or more turns if the opponent makes their to-hit roll, whether they're ST 8 DX 8 and looking the other way, or ST 14 DX 16 and facing the lassoer with weapons ready.

The missile-scale range penalties just add insult to injury.

Bolas and whips have the same issue.

Whips are in some ways worse, because although they have reach 5, they have NO penalties for range, nor for intervening figures. So if they stand behind allies, they can trip people from 3 to 5 hexes away while not being reachable themselves due to the figures in the way.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Whips are in some ways worse, because although they have reach 5, they have NO penalties for range, nor for intervening figures. So if they stand behind allies, they can trip people from 3 to 5 hexes away while not being reachable themselves due to the figures in the way.

While in the meantime actual historical Macedonian phalanxes are impossible in TFT because you can't have overlapping pikes.

BTW: What kind of dominating sorceress wields a whip-staff?