Lesser Wish: $74

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

No, I'm aware of that, but call it the amount it would take to compensate the wizard for the loss of attribute points.

Sure, though it reminds me of the amount Progressive Insurance estimated my car was worth when their client rammed into it. An interesting way to estimate it, though again it seems like it involves meta-game numbers, as opposed to the wizard pay rate you mentioned. Not that that would make my IQ 18 wizard any more interested in risking his life for someone who wants a lesser wish.



And I can't help but notice that Greater Wishes are seeming like even more of a steal by any kind of calculation, if greater demons are only IQ 11 and beatable by a regular contest... though I think the rulings I listed would pose some deterrence, especially the part about an auto-win/fail deciding a contest, as that brings the odds of failure to closer to 9% on a will contest. That seems like about enough risk, to me.

[Tenex]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

The Revival potion is $65,000. The wizard can expect to be killed one time in 50, approximately, which means that besides already having that Revival potion bought, they charge a minimum of $1300 extra for each demon summoning.

The loss of 5 attribute points... let's assume they're already at 40 total, uhh...

Question: does that loss of 5 attribute points "reset" a 40 point character to a 35 point character? If we assume that it does, then it's 12,400 experience points to regain that. The exchange rate of XP to GP is 1 to 1, so that's 12,400 gp, and at 1 gp to 10 silver (i.e. $10) that's $124,000 to cover that. $2480 additional per summoning to cover the potential for attribute loss, added to the $1300 from above, is $3780, or 378 gold pieces.

If we don't assume that the loss of 5 attribute points resets the character point total, that's 396,800 gold pieces, or $3,968,000. Divided by 50 is $79,360 plus $1300, comes to $80,660 per summoning.

Arbitrarily double that to cover the possibility of non-revivable death -- wizardry is a dangerous profession, and wizards are notoriously unable to get life insurance...

And it would be reasonable to say that a wizard would require all of this as a security deposit up front in case he died. He's not going to come after a group of adventurers after the fact and 5 points weaker trying to demand payment. Partially/fully refundable on success, depending on negotiations...

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Tenex

And it would be reasonable to say that a wizard would require all of this as a security deposit up front in case he died. He's not going to come after a group of adventurers after the fact and 5 points weaker trying to demand payment. Partially/fully refundable on success, depending on negotiations...

I think that if it came down to negotiating for a refund, the initial deposit would cover the entire amount. I mean, every time those dice come out there's risk, and that risk is being spread out over every casting. If the adventurers have their own Revival potion, complete with an Alchemists' Guild stamp of quality approval, or a wizard who can cast the Revival spell, that 1300 silver gets waived. But not the "loss of earnings and opportunities" surcharge for the 5 attribute point hit. When you play the lottery, you don't get a refund on a losing ticket...

The Wizards' Guild might very well have its own insurance program where it offers Revival in certain cases, for a surcharge on the wizard's guild dues. Spread some of that risk out even further, and not every wizard has to have their own Revival potion stashed away.

[platimus]

Originally Posted by Skarg

As I wrote originally, roleplay the IQ 18 wizard. Hmm, do I want to risk death and/or a demon rampaging in the guild hall so that someone else can get a lesser wish? What IS the actual risk? How much would make it worth it to me, if anything? What else could I do to earn that much? Would I rather be doing something else?

Yes. It would seem to me that a Wizard of good standing and sufficient means would simply refuse the job. On the other hand, if he were afraid of what might happen to his reputation if he refused or if he had some significant debt that must be paid soon "or else", he would be willing to take a risky job. Or maybe he's just foolhardy enough to do it.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by platimus

Yes. It would seem to me that a Wizard of good standing and sufficient means would simply refuse the job. On the other hand, if he were afraid of what might happen to his reputation if he refused or if he had some significant debt that must be paid soon "or else", he would be willing to take a risky job. Or maybe he's just foolhardy enough to do it.

Yes, maybe they've lucked out and found a hard-up foolhardy IQ 18 wizard. :-)


I think though that $74 is as ITL says the least that dangerous work costs, so more like the cost to get a wizard to take a walk with you someplace where there might possibly be a hostile encounter.

Compare another guild fee:

Cast the IQ 17 spell Remove Cursed Object for 20 ST and pretty much zero risk: $500, or free but they keep the enchanted object that was on you.

[Chris Goodwin]

Oh hey. Here's a possibly relevant bit...

(3) if the wizard demands a wish from the demon, he must win a contest of IQ against the demon’s IQ . . . or die

What if the wizard can say "Okay, I summoned him, now make your wish." And the contest of IQ is between the wisher and the demon, and the wisher is the one who has to take the risk.

This also makes me want to make Summon Demon the exception to the rule about allowing spells with an IQ requirement no greater than 14 to be cast from a book. The Wizards' Guild hates that there are books out there that let just anyone summon a demon.

[platimus]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Yes, maybe they've lucked out and found a hard-up foolhardy IQ 18 wizard. :-)


I think though that $74 is as ITL says the least that dangerous work costs, so more like the cost to get a wizard to take a walk with you someplace where there might possibly be a hostile encounter.

Compare another guild fee:

Cast the IQ 17 spell Remove Cursed Object for 20 ST and pretty much zero risk: $500, or free but they keep the enchanted object that was on you.

LOL Well, just because he is IQ 18 doesn't mean anything. Some really smart people end up with gambling addictions. And high IQ can bestow the gift of arrogance.

[Tenex]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

I think that if it came down to negotiating for a refund, the initial deposit would cover the entire amount. I mean, every time those dice come out there's risk, and that risk is being spread out over every casting. If the adventurers have their own Revival potion, complete with an Alchemists' Guild stamp of quality approval, or a wizard who can cast the Revival spell, that 1300 silver gets waived. But not the "loss of earnings and opportunities" surcharge for the 5 attribute point hit. When you play the lottery, you don't get a refund on a losing ticket...

The Wizards' Guild might very well have its own insurance program where it offers Revival in certain cases, for a surcharge on the wizard's guild dues. Spread some of that risk out even further, and not every wizard has to have their own Revival potion stashed away.

In my agreement with you I was thinking a little different! I actually meant a $189,000 security deposit that is forfeited if the wizard dies. Why should a wizard take the risk of being the insurance provider? The wish requester, not the wizard should bear the risk. What if the wizard dies on his first casting? That should be the wish requestor's problem, not the wizard.

[ajardoor]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

This also makes me want to make Summon Demon the exception to the rule about allowing spells with an IQ requirement no greater than 14 to be cast from a book. The Wizards' Guild hates that there are books out there that let just anyone summon a demon.

Obvious solution: guild pays bounties for such books to be handed in and put in storage under guard by Top Men and/or they arrange for those books to be found and burned (either by themselves or they hire adventurers* to do it).

* PLOT HOOK! The Guild hears rumours of a lost city with a grand ancient library and hires the PCs to seek it out, look through the library, and destroy any "code 666" books they find there.