IQ points, talents, spells, XP

[TippetsTX]

Interesting idea, but what is your problem statement? Are you trying to 'fix' something or simply creating a variant character creation mechanic?

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Interesting idea, but what is your problem statement? Are you trying to 'fix' something or simply creating a variant character creation mechanic?

The problem statement is that during character creation, points spent on IQ effectively get you 600 XP worth of "stuff" (e.g. 1 IQ plus 500 XP worth of talents or spells), while points spent on ST or DX effectively get you 100 XP worth of stuff (e.g. 1 ST or 1 DX), but that relationship breaks after character creation. From a cost benefit standpoint, there's no reason to have characters that aren't ST 8 DX 8 IQ 16, and invest all of your XP into ST or DX as needed, because you'll always be behind the curve on talents and spells.

[platimus]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

The problem statement is that during character creation, points spent on IQ effectively get you 600 XP worth of "stuff" (e.g. 1 IQ plus 500 XP worth of talents or spells), while points spent on ST or DX effectively get you 100 XP worth of stuff (e.g. 1 ST or 1 DX), but that relationship breaks after character creation. From a cost benefit standpoint, there's no reason to have characters that aren't ST 8 DX 8 IQ 16, and invest all of your XP into ST or DX as needed, because you'll always be behind the curve on talents and spells.

Oh. Well, I've got an easy solution to that:

New (human) characters start with ST8, DX8, IQ8 and 8 points to distrubute. New characters start with 10 points of talents/spells. After creation, talents/spells cost 500XP or more.

[TippetsTX]

OK, but your premise doesn't take into account the fact that ST and DX are arguably just as critical (if not moreso) even w/o the 'extra' benefit of being used to purchase talents. I believe that character survivability and martial effectiveness have just as much inherent weight as what you get from IQ.

[platimus]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

OK, but your premise doesn't take into account the fact that ST and DX are arguably just as critical (if not moreso) even w/o the 'extra' benefit of being used to purchase talents. I believe that character survivability and martial effectiveness have just as much inherent weight as what you get from IQ.

I agree. I concur.

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally Posted by platimus

I agree. I concur.

Either IQ is massively overvalued during character creation, and of normal value after (to the tune of 6 to 1 against ST or DX), or it's of normal value during and borderline worthless after.

A character with ST 8 DX 8 IQ 16 is effectively 800 XP + 800 XP + 1600 XP (IQ) + 8000 XP (talents/spells), for 11,200 XP, while a character with IQ 8 and the other 24 points in ST and DX is effectively 7,200 XP.

That's a big difference. 4000 XP, or eight talent/spells worth!

Edit: Or, the third option, is that talents are way too expensive, at 500 XP per. Maybe they should be less? Say, 100 XP per, bringing them on par with ST, DX, and IQ?

[platimus]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

Either IQ is overvalued during character creation, and of normal value after, or it's of normal value during and borderline worthless after.

A character with ST 8 DX 8 IQ 16 is effectively 800 XP + 800 XP + 1600 XP (IQ) + 8000 XP (talents/spells), for 11,200 XP, while a character with IQ 8 and the other 24 points in ST and DX is effectively 7,200 XP.

That's a big difference. 4000 XP, or eight talent/spells worth!

Did you see my other post? Might have missed with multiple posts occurring within a matter of 60 seconds...

All characters start with 10 points of talents/spells. Done. IQ factors in no where except as a requirement of the talent/spell.

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally Posted by platimus

Did you see my other post? Might have missed with multiple posts occurring within a matter of 60 seconds...

All characters start with 10 points of talents/spells. Done. IQ factors in no where except as a requirement of the talent/spell.

I think I did miss that. That's actually very close to what I'm looking at, except that all of the points come out of the same pool. If we make each attribute point two character points, and each talent/spell one character point, then 32 attributes plus 10 talents come to 74 points, or 75 to make it a nice round number.

But yours has the benefit of being a good bit simpler than mine, and the point values line up closer with the old school values.

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

OK, but your premise doesn't take into account the fact that ST and DX are arguably just as critical (if not moreso) even w/o the 'extra' benefit of being used to purchase talents. I believe that character survivability and martial effectiveness have just as much inherent weight as what you get from IQ.

If they're worth more, then okay, but make them cost more also.

If ST and DX are just as critical, why, during character creation, does each cost 100 XP, but IQ cost 600 XP? Or why is each point of ST or DX "only" worth 100 points, while each point of IQ is worth 600?

The assumption, if we take the XP for attributes chart literally, is that at "34 points and below" every attribute point is worth 100 XP. Except that buying IQ after character creation doesn't give you the same benefit as it does during character creation.

Why is 1 IQ worth 600 points during character creation, but 100 points after? Or, rather, why does it get you 600 points worth of value (e.g. +1 IQ and +1 talent/spell) but only 100 points worth after (+1 IQ)?

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by Chris Goodwin

If ST and DX are just as critical, why, during character creation, does each cost 100 XP, but IQ cost 600 XP? Or why is each point of ST or DX "only" worth 100 points, while each point of IQ is worth 600?

I know this is a separate topic, but that's actually one of my issues w/ the new rules that try to quantify the cost of talents in terms of XP. By doing that, the inequity you see now is created, but it isn't an accurate reflection of the intent or relative 'weight' of the stats when you look at them holistically.

To me, it is the unintended consequence of the XP for talents rule.