grappling & posture and grappling & letting go

[zedlopez]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

So now sitting and crawling are the ultimate anti-takedown, anti-pin positions?


I call shenanigans.

well, they aren't any better or worse than Kneeling. But, yeah, rules-as-written seem to say that you can't be taken down from sitting, crawling, or kneeling. And that if you weren't in one of those postures and you are taken down, you could take a Change Posture maneuver to switch to one of those three and you could no longer be pinned. Which would make it really hard to take someone down and pin them if you don't take an All-out Attack: Double (or otherwise have more than one attack) and win both contests on the same turn.

Icelander had an interesting suggestion that one could treat the grappler as encumbrance and apply the Change Posture in Armor rule from B395 to require the Change Posture to take multiple turns to address this within existing rules.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by zedlopez

well, they aren't any better or worse than...

Which is why I ignore nonsense rules. I know for a fact that takedowns can be performed on crawling individuals, the 'down' par terre position in Greco-Roman wrestling is famous for this!

[Tomsdad]

As Plane mention earlier Force Posture change in TG deal with this (and brings in stability of different postures for resisting it).

but otherwise yeah I'd ignore the standing only restriction (but take into account what posture you'd have to be in to "takedown" a crawling etc target)

[Anaraxes]

Just read the takedown rule as "only on a foe not on the ground*" rather than "only on a standing foe", and the problem goes away.


--
* meaning lying either prone or supine, as earlier in the thread

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Just read the takedown rule as "only on a foe not on the ground*" rather than "only on a standing foe", and the problem goes away.

This. We more or less assume it in GURPS Martial Arts.

[zedlopez]

Originally Posted by Kromm

This. We more or less assume it in GURPS Martial Arts.

OK, thanks.

Given that Change Posture isn't proscribed for those who are grappled, is there any reason you couldn't stalemate someone trying to pin you by Changing Posture to Kneeling after each time you're taken down, other than the fact that a stalemate does nothing to change your being grappled and in a vulnerable situation?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by zedlopez

Given that Change Posture isn't proscribed for those who are grappled, is there any reason you couldn't stalemate someone trying to pin you by Changing Posture to Kneeling after each time you're taken down, other than the fact that a stalemate does nothing to change your being grappled and in a vulnerable situation?

Nothing prevents that. This is one of many problems that GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling attempts to rectify. Without those rules, the puzzle is that there's no way to prevent somebody from taking a Change Posture maneuver unless you've pinned them.

Under just the rules in the Basic Set, most pins happen after somebody has suffered stun and knockdown, allowing an enemy time to grapple and pin them while they're unable to get up. Pins can also happen when someone uses multiple attacks after an earlier grapple to do something like "takedown and pin," "sweep and pin," or "Judo throw and pin." The case where somebody suffers a takedown and decides to do something that involves staying on the ground, giving their foe a chance to try a pin next turn, is pretty rare.