What to bring on a Generation Ship/Fleet

[Varyon]

Still working on my Harpyia setting, and now I need to determine what Earth species the colonists would have brought with them. The colonists were working under the assumption that the initial planet being colonized would have life, but not that it would necessarily be compatible with Earth life, so they needed to bring enough to basically create an Earthlike biome at the destination planet.

As things worked out, it turned out the initial colonized planet, and those they colonized later after working out how to travel through hyperspace, had extremely simplistic organisms, which were rapidly outcompeted and replaced by the life they brought with them. As there won't be any alien plants or critters to deal with, this means I need to determine the flora and fauna the humans brought with them.

The civilization that produced the generation fleet was mostly TL8, with a few superscience technologies (primarily for our purposes, superscience energy capacitors and reaction drives with impossible delta-v's). As part of the plot has the (immortal) survivor of a nuclear incident (which killed everyone else, and cause the fleet to abandon the ship and let it drift away, as it was too irradiated to safely salvage) aboard one of the ships basically creating an "alien" race, I've decided they were advanced in biology, enough to be able to create exowombs/growth tanks. So, some of the animal species wouldn't need to have been brought over and bred aboard the ships, but could instead have been transported as fetuses (or just gametes) in cold storage, to be grown upon arrival.

I'm primarily interested in the animal species, although some ideas of the plants would be useful. I'm assuming that while on board the ship, they probably would have been growing primarily rice and/or maize (probably genetically modified strains that avoid deficiencies), with some other crops (and non-crop but still CO2-recycling plants) for variety. For animals, while cattle are certainly going to be present in the colonies, they take up too much space, so would be grown in exowombs later. So, for meat, there are probably fisheries, chickens (also useful for eggs), pigs, and either sheep or goats (both of which also produce milk, of course), the last depending on which would be more amenable to being raised in the confines of a spaceship. I'd also expect the colonists (and their children, and so forth - it's a 500 year journey) to have pets while en-route for companionship, so a sizable dog and possibly cat population would also make sense. What sort of insects would likely be brought, on purpose or by accident? What about larger stowaway animals - I could see rats and mice being on board (this would also give the cats a more utilitarian role)? Later generation ships, which make the journey in only 100 years, may also bring more exotic animals with them, but I'm mostly interested in what the original fleet would have brought.

Since that's a bit rambling, here's my primary questions. Given the above assumptions (500 year journey, large fleet rather than single ship, exowomb availability, needing to create an Earth-like biome on a planet with an agreeable atmosphere but no real complex lifeforms to compete with or rely on), what flora and fauna would the generation fleet have likely brought with them, and which of these would have been present during the trip over, rather than basically just being in "cold storage?"

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

In terms of rat-eating pets some dog breeds were bred for it. But you really shouldn't overlook ferrets, who's European polecat ancestors are certainly capable of killing them. Plus they take up slightly less space and can get into smaller holes than cats.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Also don't overlook the rabbit and guinea pig, animals that can be both pets and food. And take up less room.

Plus for protein needs there are always insect farms.

[(E)]

An animal that helps deal with the carbon rich leftovers from growing crops would be useful. This may also be a justification for larger herbivores if you want one. Insects, fungi and birds may also fill the niche.

Filling out the on ship ecosystem is another justification to add more animals. Pharm goats or other modified mammals? If you wanted to have larger animals like cattle etc there are two reasons you could use if you wanted, life span of frozen embryos and zygotes is only about 20 years currently (though you did mention improved cryo tech). Secondly a live animal does a good job of maintaining all the assorted microfauna that it has a symbiotic relationship with.

Some musings here.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...&postcount=182

[AlexanderHowl]

In general, I would want to bring entire living ecosystems rather than just seeds/ova. They also have the added benefit of providing total life support during the journey and, when you finish terraforming your destination, you can transplant samples from the fleet to the surface of the planet. Of course, my colony fleets tend to use SM+20 spacecraft, so transporting entire ecosystems might be beyond the capabilities of your civilization.

[Kelly Pedersen]

One important consideration - for every species of creatures that you want to introduce, if they have complex behaviors at all (I'd say that means pretty much all mammals and birds, many reptiles, and even some others like sharks), you're going to have to bring, not only fertilized ova/fetuses, but a fairly substantial population of adult animals, preferably captured from their natural habitat. I'm no behavioral biologist, but offhand I'd guess that the number is going to range from at least 50, up to hundreds.

This is because a large portion of the behavior of such animals isn't instinctive or genetically programmed, it's learned from other members of the species. If you just dump a bunch of young animals on the surface of your planet, they're just going to die in droves, because nothing is there to teach them how to do things like hunt, find shelter, etc. And even those that luck out and survive are probably going to be pretty disfunctional. Expect any creatures with significant social interactions with other members of their species to be, well, jerks, to put it simply - much acceptable, workable social behavior, that lets animals interact without devolving into violence, is learned behavior too.

In addition to making your ecology actually work, this has safety implications for your colonists, too. Predators will determine what's acceptable to eat based on learned behavior too. If you just drop a bunch of predators with no training into the wilderness, at least some of them will probably try to go after humans. And "humans are relatively easy prey" is a bad, bad lesson for your planet's predators to learn.

As for why you'll need so many of each species, I'd say there's three main reasons. First, you want to guard against attrition and other losses - even the experienced animals are in a new, unfamiliar situation, so they're going to suffer some deaths. Second, you want there to be a chance of young animals interacting and learning, not only from their parents, but also from other members of their species, and seeing how the adults interact. Finally, just like genetics, you want as large a pool of variability as possible. If all the animals learn from just a very few examples, their behavior will tend to be pretty similar, and that means that a change in the environment could spell disaster, if they don't have the flexibility of behaviors to adapt.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

O Predators will determine what's acceptable to eat based on learned behavior too. If you just drop a bunch of predators with no training into the wilderness, at least some of them will probably try to go after humans. And "humans are relatively easy prey" is a bad, bad lesson for your planet's predators to learn.

Large predators are a "maybe" anyway. They tend to be fairly hard to maintain viable habitat for anywhere near human settlemtns. They could also be replaced by human hunters.

The msot adaptable ones are also most likely to become invasive. Wolves turn into coyotes in the right situation and after that you probably have more coyotes than you want forever after. You'd have to be careful to keep dogs from going feral too.

That leads to pigs and you want to be really careful about keeping them from going feral.

On the other end of the spectrum you need lots and lots of insects but forgetting to bring the mosquitos and ticks looks likely becase of their status as disease vectors. Many parasites too.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw

In terms of rat-eating pets some dog breeds were bred for it. But you really shouldn't overlook ferrets, who's European polecat ancestors are certainly capable of killing them. Plus they take up slightly less space and can get into smaller holes than cats.

From what I understand, ferrets tend to not be as good of pets as cats. Their alleged habit of stealing shiny objects and general mischievousness could also prove rather problematic on a spaceship. They probably are a good candidate for bringing along, however, at least in cold storage, as the colonists don't know what sort of pests will be at their destination planet.

Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw

Also don't overlook the rabbit and guinea pig, animals that can be both pets and food. And take up less room.

Plus for protein needs there are always insect farms.

Excellent points. The colonists are primarily from America, with a good showing from China and many, many other countries, so I'm not certain insect farms would seem palatable to them, but they are an option.

Originally Posted by (E)

Pharm goats or other modified mammals?

Hadn't actually considered that, but probably not initially. The colonists have the resources on board to be able to modify their stock of goats (or, rather, the offspring of said stock) if needed, with any R&D being done back on Earth. That was the intent, anyway (Earth went through a miniature apocalypse not long after the fleet left, and is now ruled by a totalitarian government that isn't friendly to scientific research).

Originally Posted by (E)

If you wanted to have larger animals like cattle etc there are two reasons you could use if you wanted, life span of frozen embryos and zygotes is only about 20 years currently (though you did mention improved cryo tech). Secondly a live animal does a good job of maintaining all the assorted microfauna that it has a symbiotic relationship with.

I'm handwaving away the cryo issues and just assuming enough remain viable to support a population on the other end (I'm assuming the short viability of frozen samples is a solved issue, although pulling it off with a multicellular organism isn't an option - otherwise, it would be a fleet of sleeper ships, not generation ships). The microfauna is a bit more problematic, however - I'm not certain if I'll have those in cold storage and then use them as part of the "mix" when preparing the exowomb, or if I'll maintain a small breeding population of each species (not enough to maintain genetic variability, but enough individuals to maintain the microfauna). Probably the former.

Originally Posted by (E)

Some musings here.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...&postcount=182

Very nice, thank you.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In general, I would want to bring entire living ecosystems rather than just seeds/ova. They also have the added benefit of providing total life support during the journey and, when you finish terraforming your destination, you can transplant samples from the fleet to the surface of the planet. Of course, my colony fleets tend to use SM+20 spacecraft, so transporting entire ecosystems might be beyond the capabilities of your civilization.

Yeah, I haven't worked out the ships yet, but they're going to be markedly smaller than SM+20. I do indeed want total life support, but I don't think I need every species present in the numbers needed for genetic variability to do so.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

One important consideration - for every species of creatures that you want to introduce, if they have complex behaviors at all

... they're going to be lost/significantly modified by spending 500 years in a spaceship (and a ship that loses gravity for a short while every few years - the ships get gravity via spin-tethers that also serve as umbilicals to be able to transfer objects, plants, animals, and people between ships, and they change partners every few years to avoid isolation). Behavioral issues are going to be a given. I'm assuming the colonists will train the initial few generations (with less human interference for later generations) into some simulacrum of the species' Earth behavior before releasing them (assuming they bring species that are intended to be released), and that the animals' societies will have adjusted into something roughly Earthlike within the next ~500 years (the actual setting takes place around 1000 years after the colony fleet left).

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Large predators are a "maybe" anyway. They tend to be fairly hard to maintain viable habitat for anywhere near human settlemtns. They could also be replaced by human hunters.

If large predators are brought at all, it's going to be more under the name of conservation of the species rather than for any actual intended use. For the most part, however, I'd expect them to be left off of the manifest, and if I need an encounter with tigers or crocodiles or similar, they'll be descended from escaped (or even purposefully released) pets of more eccentric later colonists.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The msot adaptable ones are also most likely to become invasive. Wolves turn into coyotes in the right situation and after that you probably have more coyotes than you want forever after. You'd have to be careful to keep dogs from going feral too.

I kind of do want to have wolves, rather than just feral dogs (there will certainly be some of the latter, of course). I'm not really certain how to justify bringing wolves along, however (they're less endangered than many of the large cats I already see being left behind).

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

That leads to pigs and you want to be really careful about keeping them from going feral.

There are absolutely going to be feral pigs. Pigs are too useful of a meat source to not bring along, and humans being humans there are going to certainly be some that escape. Boar hunts are moderately popular amongst the Harpyians, and any survival scenario I opt to run (which would be on a planet that either has a small human settlement or that colonization efforts failed at) is likely to feature them.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

On the other end of the spectrum you need lots and lots of insects but forgetting to bring the mosquitos and ticks looks likely becase of their status as disease vectors. Many parasites too.

The humans are going to do their best to avoid pests, so stinging and biting insects are likely out, as well as a lot of parasites. I do not intend to feature disease in the setting, outside of improperly cared-for wounds and the like.

[ericthered]

As a planner, I'd be going for one of two goals:


1) build the "Human Ecosystem": our food, our pets, our ornamental plants. Ourside of our living space, we really don't care what the planet looks like, though it would be nice if it had edible food. An ecosystem based on this will feature large numbers of tame animals gone feral. This will be the equivalent of dingos (feral dogs), mustangs (feral horses), and texas longhorn (feral cattle), all descended from domesticated animals, but certainly not domestic. I suspect the rodent population will be descended from somebodies escaped hamster, gerbil, or fancy rat. Or possibly a lab rat. I favor hamsters though. Concerns about animals figuring out how to live are somewhat mitigated by NOTHING knowing how to survive at first. This ecosystem may have problems if a wild species gets introduced into it.



2) build as strong an ecosystem as quickly as possible: This involves going down the invasive species list and assembling an all-star team to invade a new world. Rats, Mongooses, Cane toads, zebra mussels, Rabbits, starlings, Carp, and ants all make the list. You're asking for pests if you do this, but the ecosystem will quickly spread across the entire continent, and hopefully you'll get a stable configuration sooner rather than later. This list may need to be tweaked for organisms good at colonizing rather than just taking over other's habitats.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I thought of something regarding pet:

Cats are obligate carnivores. Is it going to be possible to give them meat during the voyage?

I think mostly I forgot if there are going to be live meat animals around during the voyage. Eating shipboard rats might be nice, but unless you can guarantee they'll stay in good supply the cats are likely to need at least some kibble.