Pak Protecters in GURPS

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I'm reasonably certain that the Kzinti must have had some other form of STL propulsion besides the gravity polarizer.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

What the Kzinti use is also referred to as an induced gravity drive and a gravity planer.

I think the Kzinti tech is best rationalized as an advanced version of the Pak tech. Which explains why humans were still stuck with torch ships until they bought the FTL drive off the Outsiders - it was even more incomprehensible, particularly when mostly melted by fusion drive.

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

But I think that the Kzinti don't necessarily need to not have reaction drives at all in order to learn the Kzinti Lesson. I think simple ignorance and hidebound-ness is probably sufficient - they had never used reaction drives that way, and so never thought of their potential. And their survey of human space wouldn't have tipped them off, because humans didn't use reaction drives that way either, at that point, and didn't think of them as weapons.

Did they scout human space? I had the impression they stumbled on the colony ship, and basically screamed and leaped - as is typical for Kzin. Certainly when they made Telepath pick the brains of the humans, they couldn't get anything that wasn't in their minds already. However, the idea that their exhaust was a navigational hazard with lethal consequences WOULD be in the minds of the crew, much as a car driver understands that hitting people with their car is lethal, even if they don't think of the car as a weapon. Telepath was in such miserable shape I don't think he could have made the mental leap of "... therefore they could point it at us" but I feel he was negligent for not mentioning "their backwash is totally murderous, don't fly there".

[warellis]

How in the world did the kzinti have a drive that could push 200 G's and yet several hundred years later humans were still putzing around on 20-30 G's at best?

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I think the Kzinti tech is best rationalized as an advanced version of the Pak tech. Which explains why humans were still stuck with torch ships until they bought the FTL drive off the Outsiders - it was even more incomprehensible, particularly when mostly melted by fusion drive.

I think perhaps there are two technologies: gravity polarizers which are the down-only drive systems, and gravity planers which induce artificial gravity between their top and bottom surfaces. IIRC Kzin ships are built broad and round like flying saucers (albeit with laser cannons and missile launchers mounted on) so they could have a gravity polarizer inside the ship with planers in the upper and lower hull. This way they can turn the ship any way they need to go and make down be that way.

This gives an in-continuity reason why the names are confused and explains why sleeping plates are a decadent luxury and not something supressed by the ARM because it can be hotwired into a 100G missile.

Originally Posted by warellis

Did they scout human space? I had the impression they stumbled on the colony ship, and basically screamed and leaped - as is typical for Kzin. Certainly when they made Telepath pick the brains of the humans, they couldn't get anything that wasn't in their minds already. However, the idea that their exhaust was a navigational hazard with lethal consequences WOULD be in the minds of the crew, much as a car driver understands that hitting people with their car is lethal, even if they don't think of the car as a weapon. Telepath was in such miserable shape I don't think he could have made the mental leap of "... therefore they could point it at us" but I feel he was negligent for not mentioning "their backwash is totally murderous, don't fly there".

Kzinti are supposed to be incurious, but there are any number of subject species who might try to buy them off with observations consistent with new conquests.

Originally Posted by warellis

How in the world did the kzinti have a drive that could push 200 G's and yet several hundred years later humans were still putzing around on 20-30 G's at best?

This guy's page at the bottom says Niven later decided that The Tracker was a one-off high-speed experimental vessel made at huge investment and not repeated after it failed to report back.

http://news.larryniven.net/concordan...alpha=G#note12

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Did they scout human space? I had the impression they stumbled on the colony ship, and basically screamed and leaped - as is typical for Kzin. Certainly when they made Telepath pick the brains of the humans, they couldn't get anything that wasn't in their minds already. However, the idea that their exhaust was a navigational hazard with lethal consequences WOULD be in the minds of the crew, much as a car driver understands that hitting people with their car is lethal, even if they don't think of the car as a weapon. Telepath was in such miserable shape I don't think he could have made the mental leap of "... therefore they could point it at us" but I feel he was negligent for not mentioning "their backwash is totally murderous, don't fly there".

As I recall (it's been a long time), the telepath was specifically looking for weapons, not "things that are dangerous". As the latter would show up obvious stuff like "don't go out the airlock in your shirtsleeves" and such, and reading the minds of non-Kzinti was clearly very hard, he was probably stuck with a very literal use of 'weapon', and thus found none.

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by Rupert

As I recall (it's been a long time), the telepath was specifically looking for weapons, not "things that are dangerous". As the latter would show up obvious stuff like "don't go out the airlock in your shirtsleeves" and such, and reading the minds of non-Kzinti was clearly very hard, he was probably stuck with a very literal use of 'weapon', and thus found none.

It's been a long time for me as well, but I think that the person being mind-read had to think of something as a weapon in order for it to be noticed by the mind reader. The human crew were so peaceful they just didn't think about things that way.

I vaguely recall something about kitchen knives and the Kzinti being surprised they had any since they had no "weapons" but knives are obviously weapons.