How do you fight high armor with a low ST character?

Nils_Lindeberg · 07-24-2018, 03:38 AM

I don't have a problem with weak untalented warriors having to rely on luck or innovative terraine tactics, superior numbers or the like to take down an experienced armored knight.

What I would like to see is a general rule for bypassing armor, or at least halving armor by hitting the right or weaker spots. Not only markmanship rules. Maybe something along the lines of: Bypass X amount of armor for a -2X adjDX. That would mean that a guy with chainmail pays 3 adjDX for wearing armor, but his opponent that tries to by pass it would have to "pay" twice that. Not an appealing proposition most of the time. But it would solve the problem of being almost impervious to a low damage weapon.

And sometimes a trade off, by taking let say -4 DX and bypassing most of the chainmail and aim for the places where it is mostly padding or sensitive spots that are still armor covered. All or nothing is not super realistic. Even a dagger through the face guard would most likely do a little less damage than a clean attack against an enemy without a helmet.

Another rule could be to say that every hit do at least 1 fST. Or every hit of at least half the armor would do 1fST. So hitting a plated knight with a shield and 7 armor with a blow of at least 4 would cause 1fST. This way a knight can walk around with impunity among the peasant levy on the battle field, and then have to retreat behind his own lines for some rest, refreshments and maybe som quick fST healing (if there are rules for that). And then get back into the fray.

A third solution for talented fighters could be to extend the Fencing talent to become a more general critical hit talent. All weapons could be included, maybe even unarmed and possibly missile spells. A sort of weapon mastery. Trainers for odd weapon mastery talents might be uncommon and that would mean that sword "fencing" would be the norm in normal fantasy worlds.

Instead of a pre req of adj14DX and a target number of 7 for double damage, set the target number to adjDX/2 round down. Then A DX20 guy would have a 10 target number for double damage, and a normal tank with 9 adjDX would have 4 and not really benefit from the talent at all. And there won't be a natural stopping point or optimum at adjDX 15 since your crit chance would still increase. And if necessary also increase the tripple damage target number to a third of adjDX minimum 3 or just set it to 4. I was never a big fan of tripple damage. Way too leathal.

The important thing with any rule change is that, if it gives a new option the new option will not be chosen almost every time at the expense of other choices. And if it is something that will be in effect all the time, it shouldn't add too much complexity, if any.

The above suggestions all adhere to that. Bypassing armor is an option that wouldn't be used very often, but when it comes into play it will have a big impact and it is not clear cut when it is optimal to use it.

fST damage will not come into effect that often either, but it will be a consolation price for many 0 damage hits, and will slowly wear down super tanks and curb the problem with stacked armor somewhat.

And the Weapon Mastery talents will not be any more complex than the Fencing talent. As long as the calculation is not too complicated. And I don't think that more characters will be starting to "fence" than Before. But a few new options are there (other weapons for one), highDX will be very nice to have and low damage weapons in the right hands can be viable. And the talent text length doesn't have to increase by much. Just keep it as one talent that works with all basic weapons you already know how to use.

07-24-2018, 03:38 AM	#9
Nils_Lindeberg Join Date: Jul 2018	Re: How do you fight high armor with a low ST character? I don't have a problem with weak untalented warriors having to rely on luck or innovative terraine tactics, superior numbers or the like to take down an experienced armored knight. What I would like to see is a general rule for bypassing armor, or at least halving armor by hitting the right or weaker spots. Not only markmanship rules. Maybe something along the lines of: Bypass X amount of armor for a -2X adjDX. That would mean that a guy with chainmail pays 3 adjDX for wearing armor, but his opponent that tries to by pass it would have to "pay" twice that. Not an appealing proposition most of the time. But it would solve the problem of being almost impervious to a low damage weapon. And sometimes a trade off, by taking let say -4 DX and bypassing most of the chainmail and aim for the places where it is mostly padding or sensitive spots that are still armor covered. All or nothing is not super realistic. Even a dagger through the face guard would most likely do a little less damage than a clean attack against an enemy without a helmet. Another rule could be to say that every hit do at least 1 fST. Or every hit of at least half the armor would do 1fST. So hitting a plated knight with a shield and 7 armor with a blow of at least 4 would cause 1fST. This way a knight can walk around with impunity among the peasant levy on the battle field, and then have to retreat behind his own lines for some rest, refreshments and maybe som quick fST healing (if there are rules for that). And then get back into the fray. A third solution for talented fighters could be to extend the Fencing talent to become a more general critical hit talent. All weapons could be included, maybe even unarmed and possibly missile spells. A sort of weapon mastery. Trainers for odd weapon mastery talents might be uncommon and that would mean that sword "fencing" would be the norm in normal fantasy worlds. Instead of a pre req of adj14DX and a target number of 7 for double damage, set the target number to adjDX/2 round down. Then A DX20 guy would have a 10 target number for double damage, and a normal tank with 9 adjDX would have 4 and not really benefit from the talent at all. And there won't be a natural stopping point or optimum at adjDX 15 since your crit chance would still increase. And if necessary also increase the tripple damage target number to a third of adjDX minimum 3 or just set it to 4. I was never a big fan of tripple damage. Way too leathal. The important thing with any rule change is that, if it gives a new option the new option will not be chosen almost every time at the expense of other choices. And if it is something that will be in effect all the time, it shouldn't add too much complexity, if any. The above suggestions all adhere to that. Bypassing armor is an option that wouldn't be used very often, but when it comes into play it will have a big impact and it is not clear cut when it is optimal to use it. fST damage will not come into effect that often either, but it will be a consolation price for many 0 damage hits, and will slowly wear down super tanks and curb the problem with stacked armor somewhat. And the Weapon Mastery talents will not be any more complex than the Fencing talent. As long as the calculation is not too complicated. And I don't think that more characters will be starting to "fence" than Before. But a few new options are there (other weapons for one), highDX will be very nice to have and low damage weapons in the right hands can be viable. And the talent text length doesn't have to increase by much. Just keep it as one talent that works with all basic weapons you already know how to use.