Entering A Hex With A Body

Steve Jackson · 07-13-2018, 12:10 PM

Ambiguity pointed out - thanks, both of you.

I meant 3 MA to jump over hex A, where the body is, and wind up in hex B. So three MA are spent to move two hexes. Could I have phrased that better? A diagram would help but I have no place to put it at this stage, at least in MELEE.

Oneiros · 07-13-2018, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Ambiguity pointed out - thanks, both of you.

I meant 3 MA to jump over hex A, where the body is, and wind up in hex B. So three MA are spent to move two hexes. Could I have phrased that better? A diagram would help but I have no place to put it at this stage, at least in MELEE.

Isn't this the same as saying the hex with the body costs 2 MA to move through?

Rick_Smith · 07-13-2018, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Ambiguity pointed out - thanks, both of you.

I meant 3 MA to jump over hex A, where the body is, and wind up in hex B. So three MA are spent to move two hexes. Could I have phrased that better? A diagram would help but I have no place to put it at this stage, at least in MELEE.

Just say, "3 MA to move 2 spaces." That is clear.

One of the places TFT shines is maneuver. Having terrain helps this, making some hexes better than others. Bodies are terrain that happens during a fight! It is worth a bit of space and rules to make this work right.

Rick

larsdangly · 07-13-2018, 04:23 PM

Exactly. The strength of TFT is its approach to movement and maneuver, but there are situations where this doesn't get expressed, like when the only real option is to move to engage, after which combat is mostly an exchange of to-hit and damage rolls. Complexity in terrain breaks that up by introducing more decision points on the way to melee engagement, where each side has some chance of joining combat with an advantage or disadvantage (or avoiding it all together).

Skarg · 07-13-2018, 04:57 PM

^ Yes. There's often a nice tension in the mid-to-end-battle phase, where there are choices about whether you want to move to places where you can help but you're also at a disadvantage because it means a broken ground DX penalty for standing on a body, or possibly falling and ending up on the ground in front of an opponent.

To me, these are all clear examples that call for not removing certain details:

* The broken ground DX mod is needed to keep body pile terrain effects even when people aren't moving much.

* As in Advanced Melee, having falling give the loss of your next action, i.e. you lose an action BEFORE the action when you can get up, is crucial to avoid weird situations where someone trips and falls on their face in front of you, but you somehow still don't get a chance to hit them with any DX bonus for them being down, or even to escape being engaged by them, because they take an action to stand up and re-engage you again before you get a chance.

* The possibility of falling should be there, but I like the proposed options that let you use MA to avoid it as long as there is also a penalty for fighting from a body hex (or else bodies become irrelevant in many situations). I've often used nearly identical house tweaks to the one suggested (always with a DX penalty, too) and think it's one of the best ways to do it.

RobW · 07-19-2018, 11:39 AM

The recent thread about what phase people stand up reminds me:

It should be clear that jumping over a body/obstacle to a clear hex on the other side does not work if you would be engaged in the hex with the body/obstacle.

Jumping over bodies and obstacles. Use 3 MA to move 2 spaces and jump over the obstacle to a clear hex on the other side. You may not jump over a hex if that means you pass through the front hexes of an enemy figure. You may jump into engagement, but not through an engagement!

Skarg · 07-19-2018, 12:10 PM

I'd rather you can jump, but if you do, someone who can reach the hex you jump through or out of gets a free attack on you during movement.

zot · 07-19-2018, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skarg

I'd rather you can jump, but if you do, someone who can reach the hex you jump through or out of gets a free attack on you during movement.

I find attacks of opportunity intriguing but I always have trouble with the fact that if twenty people jump past you, you can make twenty attacks in a turn. If you make an attack of opportunity, should it maybe count as your action?

07-13-2018, 12:10 PM	#1
Steve Jackson President and EIC Join Date: Jul 2004	Re: Entering A Hex With A Body Ambiguity pointed out - thanks, both of you. I meant 3 MA to jump over hex A, where the body is, and wind up in hex B. So three MA are spent to move two hexes. Could I have phrased that better? A diagram would help but I have no place to put it at this stage, at least in MELEE.

07-13-2018, 04:23 PM	#4
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Entering A Hex With A Body Exactly. The strength of TFT is its approach to movement and maneuver, but there are situations where this doesn't get expressed, like when the only real option is to move to engage, after which combat is mostly an exchange of to-hit and damage rolls. Complexity in terrain breaks that up by introducing more decision points on the way to melee engagement, where each side has some chance of joining combat with an advantage or disadvantage (or avoiding it all together).

07-13-2018, 04:57 PM	#5
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Entering A Hex With A Body ^ Yes. There's often a nice tension in the mid-to-end-battle phase, where there are choices about whether you want to move to places where you can help but you're also at a disadvantage because it means a broken ground DX penalty for standing on a body, or possibly falling and ending up on the ground in front of an opponent. To me, these are all clear examples that call for not removing certain details: * The broken ground DX mod is needed to keep body pile terrain effects even when people aren't moving much. * As in Advanced Melee, having falling give the loss of your next action, i.e. you lose an action BEFORE the action when you can get up, is crucial to avoid weird situations where someone trips and falls on their face in front of you, but you somehow still don't get a chance to hit them with any DX bonus for them being down, or even to escape being engaged by them, because they take an action to stand up and re-engage you again before you get a chance. * The possibility of falling should be there, but I like the proposed options that let you use MA to avoid it as long as there is also a penalty for fighting from a body hex (or else bodies become irrelevant in many situations). I've often used nearly identical house tweaks to the one suggested (always with a DX penalty, too) and think it's one of the best ways to do it.

07-19-2018, 11:39 AM	#6
RobW Join Date: Mar 2018	Re: Entering A Hex With A Body The recent thread about what phase people stand up reminds me: It should be clear that jumping over a body/obstacle to a clear hex on the other side does not work if you would be engaged in the hex with the body/obstacle. Jumping over bodies and obstacles. Use 3 MA to move 2 spaces and jump over the obstacle to a clear hex on the other side. You may not jump over a hex if that means you pass through the front hexes of an enemy figure. You may jump into engagement, but not through an engagement!

07-19-2018, 12:10 PM	#7
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Entering A Hex With A Body I'd rather you can jump, but if you do, someone who can reach the hex you jump through or out of gets a free attack on you during movement.