Knockback - why ST not HP?

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by mr beer

Really it should probably be based on mass rather than either ST or HP. But I can see how that would get fiddly.

Authors maybe chose ST because someone stronger is more firmly grounded.

Martial arts teach how to be more firmly grounded (to avoid being pushed back or thrown down) and it requires muscle activity (feet, legs, and abs).

It's a question of density rather than mere mass. And stronger people are more dense.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Authors maybe chose ST because someone stronger is more firmly grounded.

Martial arts teach how to be more firmly grounded (to avoid being pushed back or thrown down) and it requires muscle activity (feet, legs, and abs).

It's a question of density rather than mere mass. And stronger people are more dense.

On that point maybe give bonus to the ST-2 threshold for skill, similar to that of trained ST in technical grappling to model that kid of training were your more able to resist knock back due to that specific training.

Or maybe a Style specific perk "+1 to knock back threshold" (can be taken multiple times)

Ultimately in un-armed combat knock-back between even vaguely equally matched opponents (roughly similar ST) should be pretty rare anyway though.

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Authors maybe chose ST because someone stronger is more firmly grounded.

Martial arts teach how to be more firmly grounded (to avoid being pushed back or thrown down) and it requires muscle activity (feet, legs, and abs).

It's a question of density rather than mere mass. And stronger people are more dense.

I can see the argument but I think it breaks down pretty fast when you look at supernaturally strong creatures. I think human mass super-strong bricks should be knocking each other back a long way when their punches can break tanks. Or human strength demons the size of cats should still be sent flying from a kick from a warrior, even though it may not injure them.

That said, the ability to brace should make some kind of difference and it should be bigger the stronger you are.

I think it's one of those things that doesn't exactly work at the moment but generally isn't a big enough deal to make a fiddly fix for it.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by mr beer

I can see the argument but I think it breaks down pretty fast when you look at supernaturally strong creatures. I think human mass super-strong bricks should be knocking each other back a long way when their punches can break tanks. Or human strength demons the size of cats should still be sent flying from a kick from a warrior, even though it may not injure them.

That said, the ability to brace should make some kind of difference and it should be bigger the stronger you are.

I think it's one of those things that doesn't exactly work at the moment but generally isn't a big enough deal to make a fiddly fix for it.

Isn't there a Massless modifier for ST somewhere?

[GWJ]

Isn't there a Massless modifier for ST somewhere?

I don't know. I know there is Massless modifier for HP. http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...18&postcount=6

In GURPS, mass is represented by ST, not by HP: "ST measures physical power and bulk". ST determines your height range, which determines your weight range, and so on.

So why collision damage, slams etc. is calculated from HP, not ST?

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by GWJ

So why collision damage, slams etc. is calculated from HP, not ST?

Good question. You score a point, here.

[Tomsdad]

To be honest GURPS isn't consistent with how it deals with mass, so I;d substitute what ever stat gives you the result you want.

If you want ti have high ST low Mass supers knocking each other about like ping pong balls, than work out what a "normal" ST/HP stats would be for their Mass either using the weight/height tables, or HP=2x(cube root of mass) for living creatures (IIRC)

[GodBeastX]

Originally Posted by mr beer

I can see the argument but I think it breaks down pretty fast when you look at supernaturally strong creatures. I think human mass super-strong bricks should be knocking each other back a long way when their punches can break tanks. Or human strength demons the size of cats should still be sent flying from a kick from a warrior, even though it may not injure them.

That said, the ability to brace should make some kind of difference and it should be bigger the stronger you are.

I think it's one of those things that doesn't exactly work at the moment but generally isn't a big enough deal to make a fiddly fix for it.

Keep in mind mass doesn't equal size. A lot of supers in comics with super strength are shown as having lots of mass. I mean they slam into object and decimate them, get impacted by tanks without budging an inch and more. That also suggests that ST should be used for knockback so super strength individuals don't get pummeled and go flying as you suggest.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

To be honest GURPS isn't consistent with how it deals with mass, so I;d substitute what ever stat gives you the result you want.

That's because we're dealing artifacts held-over from 3e ("ST = Mass") and 'new' rules in 4e ("HP = Mass").

[Bicorn]

Originally Posted by GodBeastX

Keep in mind mass doesn't equal size. A lot of supers in comics with super strength are shown as having lots of mass. I mean they slam into object and decimate them, get impacted by tanks without budging an inch and more. That also suggests that ST should be used for knockback so super strength individuals don't get pummeled and go flying as you suggest.

I wouldn't say that suggests they have more mass than a regular person of same size. It's really more that comics generally just don't care about physics.