THE FANTASY TRIP - *KickStarter Campaign* Schedule

Chris Rice · 03-27-2018, 05:00 AM

I have no problem with flat counters as long as they are:

Larger than the originals. Made of thicker cardstock. Have updated (colour) artwork.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing but to be honest the originals were flimsy, fiddly and not easy to differentiate.

Rick_Smith · 03-27-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I have no problem with flat counters as long as they are:

Larger than the originals. Made of thicker cardstock. Have updated (colour) artwork.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing but to be honest the originals were flimsy, fiddly and not easy to differentiate.

Hi Everyone, Chris.
The counters should be...

-- Larger than the originals. I disagree. They fit on the hexes. If you made them much bigger they wouldn't. And I have no desire to make the hexes bigger, all of my current 7 hex spiders, 14 hex dragons, 7 hex hydras, etc. fit on the current sized hexes.

-- Made of thicker cardstock. Sure. Anything from 1 to 2 mm thick would be great. Anything thicker than that is fine, but seems an unneeded expense.

-- Color artwork. Sure.

-- Not easy to differentiate. Really? The art on the Death Test counters used very fine lines which looked muddy, more than the printer could handle. But the counters in the original Melee and Wizard were fine. I ended up getting 3 or four copies of both Melee and Wizard so I have a lot of duplicates. Many woman with bell bottoms and 2 handed swords. Many Wizards in long robes. So if each counter was unique, the number of duplicates (if you ended up buying a few copies), would be reduced.

-- And a new one: Printing two sided. A healthy guy on one side and a fallen body on the other would be nice but not needed. If you do so I would be fine with it. If you decide it is too expensive I won't miss it.

Warm regards, Rick.

~~Jim Kane~~ · 03-27-2018, 11:40 AM

What about putting the Individual Weapon Counters on full-sized counters - as opposed to those little tiny 1/2, 1/4, and 1/6th sized counters - which I can't see, can't handle without tweezers, and leave me afraid to breathe around them when they are in-play on the map.

Thoughts?

JK

Rick_Smith · 03-27-2018, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Kane

What about putting the Individual Weapon Counters on full-sized counters - as opposed to those little tiny 1/2, 1/4, and 1/6th sized counters - which I can't see, can't handle without tweezers, and leave me afraid to breathe around them when they are in-play on the map. ...JK

Hi all, Jim.
If the cardboard was thicker, they would be less likely to blow around.

I think a full sized counter for a dropped weapon is too big. Counters that are 1/4 size would be fine as far as I'm concerned.

Warm regards, Rick.

GlennDoren · 03-27-2018, 01:12 PM

I agree re: the original Melee counters being a great style and very iconic, bell-bottoms included. Frankly, I never saw them as "bell bottoms" 70s-style until I recently saw them described as that. I just thought they were a style to add a little more meat to them on those tiny counters, while adding a more iconic feel (rather than just mini "lifelike" drawings).

As for the weapon counters--the original micro-sized weapon counters were pretty ridiculous, even when i had tiny kid fingers.

I realize the mini-box won't support this, but it would be pretty nice to have sturdy mounted map boards, perhaps bigger hexes, that allow bigger higher-quality counters, as well as full-size weapon counters (or, if the normal counters are big enough, half-counters that aren't hopeless to handle).

If the mini-box supports a larger map that is split into 4 mounted boards, that would be pretty nice. And would allow high quality counters. And I don't need a ton of color on the counters... maybe just a few basic colors to offer the artist some palette to work with, while still maintaining a more iconic look like the original melee counters.

OR... maybe offer an optional board/counters pack so I can buy my deluxe high-quality components... and keep the starter melee/wizard starter kits inexpensive. You could even provide a smaller starter set of the high quality counters with a folding map in the starter kits... and offer the sturdy mounted maps and more counters as one or more optional packs. I just saw the D&D Dungeon Tiles yesterday at a local store--something comparable to that for TFT.

JLV · 03-27-2018, 01:34 PM

Overall, I think the size of the original character counters was fine. I could agree with bigger dropped weapon counters (the size of regular wargame counters, 1/2 inch to 5/8ths of an inch, would be just fine, SPI did that with DragonQuest, and I imported many of those counters over to my original set of TFT material back in the day -- alas, all gone now).

I'm sure, with Liz Danforth on the job, the counter art will be magnificent. And easy to differentiate too...

Sturdier cardstock would be great, but given the economics of the minigame format, I'll settle with whatever SJG goes with.

Two-sided printing? Absolutely -- the backs of counters that are not printed on are a wasted opportunity to provide more value to the game. Of course, they are also an increased cost factor...

I second the motion of a "Deluxe Board and Counter Set" being produced at some point...but even if it's not a qualitative improvement over whatever ships with Melee and Wizard, I think such an idea would be well worth considering -- as an opportunity to provide new board shapes and new counters (maybe, finally, that 14-hex dragon??? Pretty please???)

Skarg · 03-27-2018, 04:05 PM

I've always preferred TFT flat counters to miniatures or cardboard heroes.

They're very functional for TFT/GURPS where the facing matters and (at least in the battles we've often had in our games) there tend to be piles of dead and grappling bodies and other objects in the same hexes, which a 3D standing counter doesn't handle very well.

Importantly, flat counters are also much much easier to create, especially with modern computers and printers. And that makes having the pieces for lots of situations much easier and cheaper, and lets GMs make fun custom counters and stuff relatively easily instead of shopping for an painting miniatures, etc.

The Melee dropped weapon counters I like but they are tiny and fiddly. The Cardboard Heroes style flat weapon counters were larger and so easier to handle.

What I think would be ideal would be counters with backs that also show a body silhouette with the same ID as the front. Especially cool (though this could just be a fan project) would be if a two-sided PDF could be made without IDs but with a variety of body silhouettes on the backs, in a format that works to take to a copy shop... though I don't know if that's actually yet something that will reliably work.

03-27-2018, 05:00 AM	#1
Chris Rice Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland	*Re: THE FANTASY TRIP - KickStarter Campaign* Schedule** I have no problem with flat counters as long as they are: Larger than the originals. Made of thicker cardstock. Have updated (colour) artwork. Nostalgia is a wonderful thing but to be honest the originals were flimsy, fiddly and not easy to differentiate.

03-27-2018, 11:40 AM	#3
~~Jim Kane~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2018	*Re: THE FANTASY TRIP - KickStarter Campaign* Schedule What about putting the Individual Weapon Counters on full-sized counters - as opposed to those little tiny 1/2, 1/4, and 1/6th sized counters - which I can't see, can't handle without tweezers,** and leave me afraid to breathe around them when they are in-play on the map. Thoughts? JK Last edited by Jim Kane; 03-27-2018 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Clairity

03-27-2018, 01:12 PM	#5
GlennDoren Join Date: Dec 2017	*Re: THE FANTASY TRIP - KickStarter Campaign* Schedule** I agree re: the original Melee counters being a great style and very iconic, bell-bottoms included. Frankly, I never saw them as "bell bottoms" 70s-style until I recently saw them described as that. I just thought they were a style to add a little more meat to them on those tiny counters, while adding a more iconic feel (rather than just mini "lifelike" drawings). As for the weapon counters--the original micro-sized weapon counters were pretty ridiculous, even when i had tiny kid fingers. I realize the mini-box won't support this, but it would be pretty nice to have sturdy mounted map boards, perhaps bigger hexes, that allow bigger higher-quality counters, as well as full-size weapon counters (or, if the normal counters are big enough, half-counters that aren't hopeless to handle). If the mini-box supports a larger map that is split into 4 mounted boards, that would be pretty nice. And would allow high quality counters. And I don't need a ton of color on the counters... maybe just a few basic colors to offer the artist some palette to work with, while still maintaining a more iconic look like the original melee counters. OR... maybe offer an optional board/counters pack so I can buy my deluxe high-quality components... and keep the starter melee/wizard starter kits inexpensive. You could even provide a smaller starter set of the high quality counters with a folding map in the starter kits... and offer the sturdy mounted maps and more counters as one or more optional packs. I just saw the D&D Dungeon Tiles yesterday at a local store--something comparable to that for TFT.

03-27-2018, 01:34 PM	#6
JLV Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Arizona	*Re: THE FANTASY TRIP - KickStarter Campaign* Schedule** Overall, I think the size of the original character counters was fine. I could agree with bigger dropped weapon counters (the size of regular wargame counters, 1/2 inch to 5/8ths of an inch, would be just fine, SPI did that with DragonQuest, and I imported many of those counters over to my original set of TFT material back in the day -- alas, all gone now). I'm sure, with Liz Danforth on the job, the counter art will be magnificent. And easy to differentiate too... Sturdier cardstock would be great, but given the economics of the minigame format, I'll settle with whatever SJG goes with. Two-sided printing? Absolutely -- the backs of counters that are not printed on are a wasted opportunity to provide more value to the game. Of course, they are also an increased cost factor... I second the motion of a "Deluxe Board and Counter Set" being produced at some point...but even if it's not a qualitative improvement over whatever ships with Melee and Wizard, I think such an idea would be well worth considering -- as an opportunity to provide new board shapes and new counters (maybe, finally, that 14-hex dragon??? Pretty please???)

03-27-2018, 04:05 PM	#7
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	*Re: THE FANTASY TRIP - KickStarter Campaign* Schedule** I've always preferred TFT flat counters to miniatures or cardboard heroes. They're very functional for TFT/GURPS where the facing matters and (at least in the battles we've often had in our games) there tend to be piles of dead and grappling bodies and other objects in the same hexes, which a 3D standing counter doesn't handle very well. Importantly, flat counters are also much much easier to create, especially with modern computers and printers. And that makes having the pieces for lots of situations much easier and cheaper, and lets GMs make fun custom counters and stuff relatively easily instead of shopping for an painting miniatures, etc. The Melee dropped weapon counters I like but they are tiny and fiddly. The Cardboard Heroes style flat weapon counters were larger and so easier to handle. What I think would be ideal would be counters with backs that also show a body silhouette with the same ID as the front. Especially cool (though this could just be a fan project) would be if a two-sided PDF could be made without IDs but with a variety of body silhouettes on the backs, in a format that works to take to a copy shop... though I don't know if that's actually yet something that will reliably work.