Affording racial templates

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Also look out for overlap, which makes some things more affordable than they might at first appear. Elf and half-elf wizards, for instance, save 5 points on Magery, so the real template cost is 15 points if you're going to play a wizard anyway.

To be clear, Magery 0 for elven wizards and Combat Reflexes for cat-folk swashbucklers are literally the only overlaps currently in DFRPG, right? Everything else just adds to existing levels at normal cost.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

To be clear, Magery 0 for elven wizards and Combat Reflexes for cat-folk swashbucklers are literally the only overlaps currently in DFRPG, right? Everything else just adds to existing levels at normal cost.

It "depends" - if you were going to buy up your DX from your default or buy Combat Reflexes (either with discretionary advantage points), then the cat-folk overlaps with those purchases and chips away at the points you needed to allocate. As an example.

[Kalzazz]

Knights get combat reflexes also

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by Bruno

It "depends" - if you were going to buy up your DX from your default or buy Combat Reflexes (either with discretionary advantage points), then the cat-folk overlaps with those purchases and chips away at the points you needed to allocate. As an example.

That makes the template give you something you wanted anyway, but you're still paying the full point cost of the template.

Yes to Knight having Combat Reflexes, I scanned for matches between races and professional advantages before I went back to check who had it.

[Kromm]

The only way your professional template can make your racial template more affordable is if both include an advantage that's (1) mandatory and (2) doesn't come in stackable levels. I believe Combat Reflexes and Magery 0 are the proverbial "it."

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

That makes the template give you something you wanted anyway, but you're still paying the full point cost of the template.

I think it's a matter of perspective. "My character needs to be a Thief with DX 16 and Combat Reflexes" - if that's the case, then it doesn't matter if you're a cat-folk thief or not. It might as well be part of the non-discretionary-spending points, and to you Thief in fact only has the 7 discretionary points in the Skills list to play with. The fact that Cat-Folk effectively costs 5 points (and Elf costs 0 points) is very important.

OTOH if you need a barbarian with Discriminatory Smell and +2 HT, you really only have 14 discretionary points to work with. Dwarf, Half-Ogre, and Half-Orc cost 10 points each, and Halfling is a net -10 (although not an actual disadvantage, it's just super-cheap, and a questionable buy)

[ArchonShiva]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I think it's a matter of perspective. "My character needs to be a Thief with DX 16 and Combat Reflexes" - if that's the case, then it doesn't matter if you're a cat-folk thief or not. It might as well be part of the non-discretionary-spending points, and to you Thief in fact only has the 7 discretionary points in the Skills list to play with. The fact that Cat-Folk effectively costs 5 points (and Elf costs 0 points) is very important.

OTOH if you need a barbarian with Discriminatory Smell and +2 HT, you really only have 14 discretionary points to work with. Dwarf, Half-Ogre, and Half-Orc cost 10 points each, and Halfling is a net -10 (although not an actual disadvantage, it's just super-cheap, and a questionable buy)

I think you’re basically saying that discretionary points that you have an intended use for are no longer discretionary. They’re still to your discretion, it’s just that you have already made a decision.

Unless I misunderstand, you’re confusing synergy with making a race use up less character points.

Unless we’re talking about a major breakpoint the profession just needs to hit, I guess.

[Anthony]

Incidentally, there's also the problem of overlapping disadvantages. The way it works for social stigma is specifically spelled out on Adventurers p66, but if I make an elf druid, do I have to take -20 points from the first disadvantage list (which includes sense of duty(nature)), or can I only take -5 points from the first list and make up for it with either fewer advantages or more disadvantages from the second list?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Incidentally, there's also the problem of overlapping disadvantages. The way it works for social stigma is specifically spelled out on Adventurers p66, but if I make an elf druid, do I have to take -20 points from the first disadvantage list (which includes sense of duty(nature)), or can I only take -5 points from the first list and make up for it with either fewer advantages or more disadvantages from the second list?

Pg 42, Understanding Racial Templates, sub paragraph Disadvantages.