Metric? Keep or change?

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Anthony

That's almost certainly untrue; we may not be a metric country, but that doesn't mean most people aren't still taught the metric system or have learned it for other reasons (such as other RPGs, including the previous edition, that used metric), and of course international players will be unfamiliar with US customary units.

If we assume that most TFT players are American - a reasonable assumption - then I think it's reasonable to assume that they are FAR more familiar with US customary units. Yes, I know that's slightly different than what I originally said, but I was speaking (metaphorically) informally. Consider my statement amended.

Most people in the US at least know about how long a yard is. Even if they know a meter is about 3" longer, there's no point in forcing them to think about the conversion. The same is true of kilograms. We know about how much a pound is; there's no point in making us subconsciously divide kilograms by 2.2.

In any case, there's no more reason to use the metric system in TFT than there was to use it in GURPS.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

In any case, there's no more reason to use the metric system in TFT than there was to use it in GURPS.

There's no need to use either system. There's just no particular reason to change.

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Anthony

There's no need to use either system. There's just no particular reason to change.

I disagree, for the reasons I stated above. I think it's almost self-evident that the system that is most familiar to the majority of players should be used.

I follow this in my own game design - a 20/21st century miniature wargame. A Fistful of TOWs uses both metric and English, because each is the more familiar to most players in different contexts. Military distances are commonly expressed in meters (even by the US military). So the game scale is 1 inch equals 100 meters. Inches are easier to use by Americans (and none of my European players have demanded centimeters) because they are more familiar and require smaller numbers. It's just a little quicker to divide 10 inches by 2 (to determine close range) or multiply by 1.5 (to determine long range) than it is to divide/multiply 25.4 centimeters. And with hundreds of such measurements in a good sized game, I think it's worth avoiding the accumulated hassle.

Many UK wargames use inches, despite the UK being nominally committed to the metric system, I suspect for the same reason.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

Military distances are commonly expressed in meters (even by the US military). So the game scale is 1 inch equals 100 meters. Inches are easier to use by Americans (and none of my European players have demanded centimeters) because they are more familiar and require smaller numbers. It's just a little quicker to divide 10 inches by 2 (to determine close range) or multiply by 1.5 (to determine long range) than it is to divide/multiply 25.4 centimeters. And with hundreds of such measurements in a good sized game, I think it's worth avoiding the accumulated hassle.

That's just being willfully inept at unit conversion. Unless for some reason you have 1:3937 scale miniatures, just use different scales depending on the rulers people are using (so a weapon with a range of 1,000 meters is treated as range 10 inches or 25 centimeters). As long as people aren't using two different rulers at one table, it doesn't matter.

[larsdangly]

1 inch equals 100 meters...I just don't even know where to start.

[Chris Goodwin]

In the full RPG, you can use the rationale that the Mnoren used metric, therefore their world uses metric.

In the arena game, I'm not sure you need to go much deeper than one hex equals one hex, and one turn equals one turn.

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

1 inch equals 100 meters...I just don't even know where to start.

<shrug> It's a common approach in miniature wargames. And presumably, it's done for the same reason I did - inches are a little easier to use in calculations and American wargamers, at least, are far more familiar with inches than centimeters. Meters are the common way militaries express ranges (and this is carried over into most reference works).

And as noted above, figure scales and ground scales are almost always different in miniature games. FFT, for instance, is designed to be played with 6mm or 1/285 miniatures. A matching ground scale would be 1" = 9.35 meters. With tactical weapons systems ranging as far as 4000m or so, I think you can see the practical problems inherent in using that scale.

So...I'm not sure what the big deal is.

[Rolando]

Many miniature games use 1 inch = 100 meters, no big deal. Ground scale is different to model scale too. Most of the time ground scale is irrelevant as you are playing the game, so everything is game related, everything in inches.

Now, for TFT, I think changing it to yards and pounds is sensible to accommodate the majority of the current player base, now metric is used everywhere else, not just Europe, that is also good to have in mind. Still most players will be from USA, so changing may be a good idea.

But change always have a cost, and in some places you will end with measurements in meters needing errata.

That said, I think most players in metric countries will not mind using the archaic measures (as most use them already in other games) meanwhile USA players will be more alienated by the use of metric, in general.

[tbeard1999]

Originally Posted by Anthony

That's just being willfully inept at unit conversion. Unless for some reason you have 1:3937 scale miniatures, just use different scales depending on the rulers people are using (so a weapon with a range of 1,000 meters is treated as range 10 inches or 25 centimeters). As long as people aren't using two different rulers at one table, it doesn't matter.

Well, A Fistful of TOWs 3 is a Gold seller on Wargame Vault; (don't know the Lulu rank for physical books). The earlier versions of the game have been popular with modern wargamers since the late 1990s.

So the the use of dual measurement systems doesn't seem to have hurt sales.

And your solution doesn't really reflect how the game is played. Short range is determined as 1/2 of effective range. Long range is 1.5 x effective range. And no pre-measuring is allowed. Therefore, calculating and eyeballing distance is something players do. As noted, it's easier to multiply 12 by .5 or 1.5 than it is to multiply 25.4 or 25 by .5 or 1.5.

At the end of the day, you haven't really articulated why it is a better idea to use the metric system for a game mostly played by Americans. But you seem to want to do so really badly.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

At the end of the day, you haven't really articulated why it is a better idea to use the metric system for a game mostly played by Americans. But you seem to want to do so really badly.

It's not better. It's just completely irrelevant. The fundamental unit of measure in TFT is the hex.

I've run into RPGs that used the unit of measure "m/y" -- meaning it's either a meter or a yard -- with zero conversion, because in the end all that matters is hexes on the map, and at the resolution of usable maps, the difference between a meter and a yard does not matter.