Code of Honor (Honesty), point value?

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Conversely, education and experience as a lawyer largely involves internalising the concept that actual law reflects the end result of a messy, imprecise, imperfect process fraught with human frailty, prejudice and ignorance, and that justice and morality are entirely independent of the technical concept of 'the law'.

The idea that the compulsively law-abiding behaviour described as the GURPS Disadvantage 'Honesty' has any bearing on being genuinely ethical, honest or moral isn't one likely to find much sympathy with lawyers.

Not entirely independent, because the actual law reflects what humans think it should be and some are as it happens just and moral while most desire others to behave justly and morally to them more then they desire that others behave thuggishly toward them.

[jason taylor]

One interesting scene I remember Victor Lazlo telling Captain Renault,"I am under your authority, is it your order that I come to the station" or however he worded that. Another is where he describes himself as a Czech, Major Strassor tells him he is a lawful subject of the Third Reich and he says, "I do not recognize such allegiance. Not, "Darn right I'm a rebel and to heck with what you think about it" but "I serve a different regime and reject that specious claim of Nazi Germany to rule over my homeland. He in fact would probably consider the Czech exile state to be his lawful allegiance.

Those two quotes tell that Lazlo has an instinctive respect for law. Not so much slavish respect as he could hardly operate without breaking the local law quite often. But a mentality that would make obeying the law a default choice in peacetime which it obviously was not.

In other words his CoH includes respecting the law. It did not include following it blindly when it's officers were themselves lawless. In this case it would be quirk level as it certainly does not inhibit him.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Not entirely independent, because the actual law reflects what humans think it should be and some are as it happens just and moral while most desire others to behave justly and morally to them more then they desire that others behave thuggishly toward them.

People and societies often change MUCH faster than laws. And laws exist as defined singular objects, while nations are made up of millions of opinions and views.
There are countless partly enforced and completely unenforced laws still on the books.
Anyone on the internet knows just how common the idea that torture is a just and proper punishment for certain crimes or even merely the accusations of such.
So I simply cannot believe that most humans think very similarly except in more immediate and selfish terms. Don't hurt ME, don't steal from ME, etc. oh yeah to minimize hypocrisy don't do that to them either... unless they hurt ME or "mine".

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

People and societies often change MUCH faster than laws. And laws exist as defined singular objects, while nations are made up of millions of opinions and views.
There are countless partly enforced and completely unenforced laws still on the books.
Anyone on the internet knows just how common the idea that torture is a just and proper punishment for certain crimes or even merely the accusations of such.
So I simply cannot believe that most humans think very similarly except in more immediate and selfish terms. Don't hurt ME, don't steal from ME, etc. oh yeah to minimize hypocrisy don't do that to them either... unless they hurt ME or "mine".

The speaker said that they were independent. Whether or not that is true, the point is that there is overlap and the overlap is not coincidental.