Code of Honor (Honesty), point value?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I would equally be in trouble if I went looking for heroin dealers to beat up instead.

Superman does not look for heroine dealers to beat up. He doesn't look for heroine dealers and he doesn't look for people to beat up. Superman isn't Batman.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Superman does not look for heroine dealers to beat up. He doesn't look for heroine dealers and he doesn't look for people to beat up. Superman isn't Batman.

I have certainly read Superman comics where he flies around Metropolis on patrol, stops people who are commiting crimes and takes them to the police. This definitely included drug dealers, especially in the 80s. I don't think I've read any Superman comic where Clark Kent minds his own business until he accidentally prevents a violent crime.

[Flyndaran]

With his super senses, why should he ignore the suffering of others?
It's pretty gruesome to imagine a superman that just ignores all the crime.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

With his super senses, why should he ignore the suffering of others?
It's pretty gruesome to imagine a superman that just ignores all the crime.

If you want to dedicate your life to emergency response, become an EMT or firefighter or something. If you specifically want to do first response to violent and criminal incidents, join the police.

I'm not saying that I, personally, believe that official governmental authority automatically makes things safer, more effective or less prone to abuse. But then, I'm clearly not Honest, as I don't make much of an effort to obey laws I disagree with.

The reality is that there are widely different legal standards in most modern countries for bystanders who react in an emergency to prevent tragedy vs. any persons who deliberately seek out situations where they are able to use rescue or crime-fighting methods that otherwise would be illegal.

The clear trend is to require that anyone who plans for such activity be certified, accountable, subject to standards and practises, equipped accordingly, regulated and authorised. And there are cogent arguments to be made for that point of view, as most people who decide to dress funny and beat up poor minorities are more likely to be the inheritors of the Ku Klux Klan than they are to be Batman or Superman.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The reality is that there are widely different legal standards in most modern countries for bystanders who react in an emergency to prevent tragedy vs. any persons who deliberately seek out situations where they are able to use rescue or crime-fighting methods that otherwise would be illegal.

Look I can't say there haven't been any stories in which some writer didn't have Superman do illegal things. It's been 80 years, there have been a lot of different versions of Superman and a lot of writers who don't necessarily know what they're doing. But saving lives isn't illegal. There are no illegal ways to rescue people from building fires provided that you don't make their danger worse. Stopping criminals in the middle of a felony without hurting them isn't illegal. Superman is not Batman. Superman can do his thing without breaking the law.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Icelander

If you want to dedicate your life to emergency response, become an EMT or firefighter or something. If you specifically want to do first response to violent and criminal incidents, join the police.

I'm not saying that I, personally, believe that official governmental authority automatically makes things safer, more effective or less prone to abuse. But then, I'm clearly not Honest, as I don't make much of an effort to obey laws I disagree with.

The reality is that there are widely different legal standards in most modern countries for bystanders who react in an emergency to prevent tragedy vs. any persons who deliberately seek out situations where they are able to use rescue or crime-fighting methods that otherwise would be illegal.

The clear trend is to require that anyone who plans for such activity be certified, accountable, subject to standards and practises, equipped accordingly, regulated and authorised. And there are cogent arguments to be made for that point of view, as most people who decide to dress funny and beat up poor minorities are more likely to be the inheritors of the Ku Klux Klan than they are to be Batman or Superman.

I see your point. In an otherwise realistic world, supers would/should join governmentally sanctioned rescue teams.
But governments in comics are even more corrupt and infiltrated by enemy organizations than they are in reality. That makes joining any such registration inherently dumb if not suicidal.

You're a lawyer. I don't think anyone here assumes you have Honesty... Kidding, kidding.
Overused joke, but as most people don't have anything more than a quirk level Honesty...

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

You're a lawyer. I don't think anyone here assumes you have Honesty... Kidding, kidding.

Actually I think that might highlight the difference between the normal use of the word and some interpretations of the GURPS disadvantage. Many stereotypical evil lawyers are much closer to the geas to obey the law version than the normal English meaning of honest, in that they do stay (barely) inside the letter of the law while completely violating its spirit.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Actually I think that might highlight the difference between the normal use of the word and some interpretations of the GURPS disadvantage. Many stereotypical evil lawyers are much closer to the geas to obey the law version than the normal English meaning of honest, in that they do stay (barely) inside the letter of the law while completely violating its spirit.

Conversely, education and experience as a lawyer largely involves internalising the concept that actual law reflects the end result of a messy, imprecise, imperfect process fraught with human frailty, prejudice and ignorance, and that justice and morality are entirely independent of the technical concept of 'the law'.

The idea that the compulsively law-abiding behaviour described as the GURPS Disadvantage 'Honesty' has any bearing on being genuinely ethical, honest or moral isn't one likely to find much sympathy with lawyers.