Deflect on a Shield

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Colarmel

Only the highest applicable Deflect counts. Defending Shield or Defending weapon apply to all defenses using that weapon. Generally with a million coppet and free choice, you want Deflect on armor and defending on the other stuff, since it costs the same and you're less likely to be without it.

Deflect on armor doesn't inflict increased Ready time or Close Combat penalties either.

It also makes you have to figure out active defenses based on hit location, and requires you to roll hit location before defense. I really wish that piecemeal Deflect wasn't something that they kept in this game. Something like jewelry that gives you a DB with the same restrictions as the Shield spell (rings of protection) would have been my preference.

[Colarmel]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Deflect on armor doesn't inflict increased Ready time or Close Combat penalties either.

It also makes you have to figure out active defenses based on hit location, and requires you to roll hit location before defense. I really wish that piecemeal Deflect wasn't something that they kept in this game. Something like jewelry that gives you a DB with the same restrictions as the Shield spell (rings of protection) would have been my preference.

Yeah. In my game I wouldn't allow deflect piecemeal or on shields. Just to avoid book-keeping. It goes on jewelry or full suits, if the only armor your character wears is torso armor and you want deflect, fine, but you're paying full suit prices and it's covering your whole body with magical deflect-y goodness. If we can allow As You Like It, I can insist on that.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I really wish that piecemeal Deflect wasn't something that they kept in this game.

I really wish that deflect wasn't something that they kept in the game. Absent deflect, if we look at two fighters with equal skill with a parry bonus (DB, combat reflexes, enhanced active defenses, retreat) are best off attacking as follows:

• PB +0: Deceptive attack down to skill 12, resulting in defense 9, hit chance 47%.
• PB +1: Deceptive attack down to skill 12, resulting in defense 10, hit chance 38%.
• PB +2: Deceptive attack down to skill 12, resulting in defense 11, hit chance 29%.
• PB +3: Deceptive attack down to skill 12, resulting in defense 12, hit chance 21%.
• PB +4: Deceptive attack down to skill 10, resulting in defense 12, hit chance 14% (going down to 12 is almost as good; 13.6% vs 14.3%).
• PB +5 or more: forget about deceptive attack. Make as many attacks as possible at modified skill 16 or better, fishing for crits.

Two fighters with medium shields (or fencing weapons) and combat reflexes, using retreats and stepping forward on their turns, are already sitting close to the degenerate case (PB+4), adding deflect pushes it over the edge.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I really wish that deflect wasn't something that they kept in the game. Absent deflect, if we look at two fighters with equal skill with a parry bonus (DB, combat reflexes, enhanced active defenses, retreat) are best off attacking as follows:

• PB +0: Deceptive attack down to skill 12, resulting in defense 9, hit chance 47%.
• PB +1: Deceptive attack down to skill 12, resulting in defense 10, hit chance 38%.
• PB +2: Deceptive attack down to skill 12, resulting in defense 11, hit chance 29%.
• PB +3: Deceptive attack down to skill 12, resulting in defense 12, hit chance 21%.
• PB +4: Deceptive attack down to skill 10, resulting in defense 12, hit chance 14% (going down to 12 is almost as good; 13.6% vs 14.3%).
• PB +5 or more: forget about deceptive attack. Make as many attacks as possible at modified skill 16 or better, fishing for crits.

Two fighters with medium shields (or fencing weapons) and combat reflexes, using retreats and stepping forward on their turns, are already sitting close to the degenerate case (PB+4), adding deflect pushes it over the edge.

Parry is vulnerable to saturation attacks, unlike Dodge, so rapid strikes and multiple attackers can make deceptive attack useful against high Parry.

My proposal wouldn't contribute as much to the problem, because at best you could add +2 to an existing shield's.

[Colarmel]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Parry is vulnerable to saturation attacks, unlike Dodge, so rapid strikes and multiple attackers can make deceptive attack useful against high Parry.

My proposal wouldn't contribute this problem though, since it would give a DB in lieu of a shield's bonus and DB doesn't stack.

Magical DB doesn't stack. But armor db+5 and a regular small shield results in DB 6

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Colarmel

Magical DB doesn't stack. But armor db+5 and a regular small shield results in DB 6

If you don't have Deflect on armor where are you getting armor DB from? Where would you get DB 5 armor from at all? Deflect only goes to +2 in Dungeon Fantasy (and gothic fluted plate isn't an option either).

[Colarmel]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If you don't have Deflect on armor where are you getting armor DB from? Where would you get DB 5 armor from at all? Deflect only goes to +2 in Dungeon Fantasy (and gothic fluted plate isn't an option either).

It goes higher than that. Just not listed in adventurers. See Exploits p. 79. Regardless of where you're getting the magical DB whether from armor or a magic DB ring, it should remain true that it doesn't replace, but supplements mundane shield DB.

Edit: although in light of your edit that second part is irrelevant.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Colarmel

It goes higher than that. Just not listed in adventurers. See Exploits p. 79. Regardless of where you're getting the magical DB whether from armor or a magic DB ring, it should remain true that it doesn't replace, but supplements mundane shield DB.

Edit: although in light of your edit that second part is irrelevant.

Yeah I realized that I wasn't clear.

At any we have armor DB, so this is all kind of moot, except as house rules.