The Fantasy Trip

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by JLV

Dare I hope for a "Designer's Edition" of the rules (like DE Ogre)?

Isn't this already GURPS?

[GM Joe]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Isn't this already GURPS?

GURPS 1e, maybe.

Ooh, ooh! A prestige reprint of GURPS 1e is coming! :D

[Anthony]

TFT was published in 1982; 17 U.S. Code § 203 allows termination during a 5 year period after 35 years (i.e. 2017) and requires prior notice of 2-10 years, so this sounds entirely plausible, but not indicative of much of anything other than SJ considering exercising his rights worth the (probably minimal) effort required.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Isn't this already GURPS?

GURPS has some pretty substantial differences from TFT. There's clearly some heritage there, but also of completely redesigned and new systems and mechanics. Would you count D&D 3.5 as a Designers' Edition of the original boxed set?

Also, no Prootwaddles...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

GURPS has some pretty substantial differences from TFT. There's clearly some heritage there, but also of completely redesigned and new systems and mechanics. Would you count D&D 3.5 as a Designers' Edition of the original boxed set?

Also, no Prootwaddles...

ODE has some pretty substantial differences from the Micorgames Ogre.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

GURPS has some pretty substantial differences from TFT.

GURPS probably owes more to Hero than to TFT. While TFT was certainly a learning experience for the designer of GURPS, I'd hesitate to say it's a direct ancestor, any more than an Apple IIe is a direct ancestor of an iPhone. I played a lot of TFT . . . and when I started playing GURPS, the only thing that made me think of TFT was the name "Steve Jackson" on the cover.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by Kromm

GURPS probably owes more to Hero than to TFT. While TFT was certainly a learning experience for the designer of GURPS, I'd hesitate to say it's a direct ancestor, any more than an Apple IIe is a direct ancestor of an iPhone. I played a lot of TFT . . . and when I started playing GURPS, the only thing that made me think of TFT was the name "Steve Jackson" on the cover.

Hmm, that's very interesting. GURPS felt more to me like an even blend of concepts from TFT and Hero concepts, especially as I started GURPS with Man to Man. In particular, the small set of core attributes, the way you rolled success and damage rolls, and the flow of the combat system (and later, the magic system in Fantasy) all had much more of a TFT than Hero feel to me.

Then again, Hero itself does look a bit like a highly evolved TFT game, so there you go...

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Isn't this already GURPS?

No. Steve's editorial in Roleplayer notes that GURPS is more a sibling than descendant.

Let's compare:
GURPS 4 prime (ST, DX, IQ, HT), 2 secondary (MA, PD), 3 pseudo-attributes (will, charisma, alertness), one character "type" (character; 2 if using G:B&B); skills (including skills, spells, superpowers), advantages, disadvantages. Two of the primes can be split readily (ST & HT), a third isn't explcitly splittable in anything I've got, but could be (DX). All rolls 3d6, difficulty adjusts target number. Every primary attribute, pseudo-attribute, and skills, advantages, powers, etc bought directly (tho' atts and skills combine to determine the target number)

TFT 3 prime (ST, DX, IQ), 2 secondary (MA, AdjDX), 3 types (Warrior, Wizard, Super); Talents, Spells, superpowers. Task rolls variable difficulty expressing how many dice to roll; combat is USUALLY 3d6, adjusting AdjDex.

Talents cover the GURPS Pseudo-attributes, as well as skills, and some advantages. IQ determines "slots", which were what was spent on talents and spells.

For me, an ideal TFT Deluxe would be:

• Dragons of Underearth as a basic book, relaid out and prettified.
• Combined AM, AW, ITL, and Lords of Underearth in the "Core Book".
• In Tolenkar's Lair and the other GM adventure in a booklet, possibly with a new one.
• All the microquests in a larger format (5x8 or 6x9, with larger text) either as cardstock covered booklets or bound into a single volume.
• All 5 countersheets in decent chipboard, but relabeled so as to not be overlapping ID's. Add a 6th with the described but absent sizes. Like Horses.
• a nicely redone version of the Fantasy Master's Codex, with Illos.
• All the SpaceGamer articles in a single volume, perhaps bound into the corebook as appendices.

[David L Pulver]

TFT was the second "roleplaying" game I played (in its Melee/Wizard form) after Basic D&D.

I recall hacking melee and wizard together with some house rules to run dungeon adventures, and when In the Labyrinth came out, running an actual campaign. I especially liked the ability to customize characters with the various Talents.

(Checks ancient binder)

Hey, I've still got my first (pre-In the Labyrinth) TFT dungeon from 1979!

Obscure TFT Trivia

"In the Labyrinth" (1980?) appears to contain one of first published uses of the term "Tank" as a term to describe a melee fighter in a fantasy game. Was it already current in gaming slang at the time?

[pyratejohn]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

"In the Labyrinth" (1980?) appears to contain one of first published uses of the term "Tank" as a term to describe a melee fighter in a fantasy game. Was it already current in gaming slang at the time?

That was the first time I remember encountering it. I always chuckle when my video gamer friends would use the term, given its apparent obscure heritage.