[Powers] Melee Cone?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'm interested in abilities that function at melee ranges - that is, somewhere between C and 4 yards - not in 10 yard projected beams.

Short Range works just as well on Jet as it does on normal Innate Attacks.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Sure. I'd actually check the Accessibility write up in... I think it's Power-Ups Limitations. I'm being lazy today or I'd have done that myself.

I was also too lazy to check, but I know from experience that 50% Accessible (which this sort of is) is a -20% Limitation.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Is there a way to add the ability to parry to a trait that is allowed to have the Melee limitation? The ability could built as an area attack with the ability to parry as a Melee weapon to approximate things.

Making this as an actual Advantage - rather than using the build to figure out the necessary Imbuement Technique - I'd make it a Natural Weapon with Ranged, which allows it to be used normally in melee. If not using Natural Weapon - say, for a magical blade of fire that deals damage completely independent of the character's ST* - I'd probably build it as two Alternative Attacks - one with Melee, the other with Arc (or Area Effect) and Emanation.

*Actually, I'd still build it as a Natural Weapon, with as many levels of Increased Damage as needed and allowed; if that were insufficient, I'd use the suggested One Attack Only -60% Limitation on Striking ST. But that's more because I actually prefer Natural Weapon over Innate Attack.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Short Range works just as well on Jet as it does on normal Innate Attacks.

Fair enough, but that still has the issue that you aren't supposed to reduce Max independently of 1/2D. If we ignore that rule as well as ignore the Cone and Jet incompatibility (as you previously suggested), an attack that strikes all three of the character's Front hexes would be Cone +80%, Jet +0%, Blockable -10%, Reduced Max Range x1/2 -5%, and Reduced Range x1/5 -20%, or a grand total of +45%. Of course, at this point Jet seems like a senseless option (the whole point is to avoid Range penalties, which this lacks), so dropping it and having Reduced Max Range x1/10 -15% and Reduced Range x1/10 -30% changes it to a net +25%. Instead using Arc +40%/level, this would be Arc +40%, Blockable -10%, Emanation -20%, for a total of +10%. As upgrading to affect all hexes within 1 yard of the character - with Area Effect +50% instead of Arc - is +20%, I think Arc is more appropriate here.

For the actual build I'm looking at, it occurs to me that the normal Ranged modifier is +40%, while Emanation is -20%, so it may be appropriate, with the Ranged modifier for Natural Weapon being +100%, to change Emanation to -50%. On a Natural Weapon, the first is something like Cone +80%, Ranged +100%, Blockable -10%, Reduced Max Range x1/10* -15%, Reduced Range x1/10* -30%, for a total of +125%. The Arc build would be Arc +40%, Ranged +100%, Blockable -10%, Emanation -50%, for a net +80%, or +90% to switch Arc out for Area Effect. It does occur to me that at this price, limiting it to only the front 3 hexes has so little effect on price most are likely to opt for just the full coverage. I'm honestly tempted to make it +100% for the Area Effect (fudging things a bit for an even -10 to hit in my Imbuement system), and +60% for only the front 3 hexes (boosting the Accessibility to -40%, which is probably a bit much), simply because those "feel" a bit more right to me, but that's a case where I'm taking the "proper" build and adjusting it a bit - in which case the proper build is at least giving me a jumping-off point.

*This assumes a character with ST 10 - higher ST actually gets more range, but you have to be at ST 20 before you'd really get a higher Limitation value anyway, so I think we're good here.

[evileeyore]

The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...

I don't see anything in the description of Cone that indicates this. An undefined cone, as for a weapon, spreads at a rate of 1 yard of width gained per yard of range, but there's nothing indicating this is the fastest it can spread. Even with that, I certainly prefer the Arc+Emanation route instead.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Varyon

An undefined cone, as for a weapon, spreads at a rate of 1 yard of width gained per yard of range, but there's nothing indicating this is the fastest it can spread.

Yeah, that's where it came from. undefined.

I suppose if the cone were 1 yd maximum range and 3 yd wide at range... then it's a 3 yd wide arc.

Huh.

[Rindis]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Yeah, that's where it came from. undefined.

I suppose if the cone were 1 yd maximum range and 3 yd wide at range... then it's a 3 yd wide arc.

Huh.

Which is what I did with Burning Hands. It's not RAW, as it requires extending the Reduced Range limitation, but otherwise it's fine.

In the case of a flaming blade, as described in the OP, I'd look at the Jet solution that was mentioned earlier.

[Varyon]

While I believe I mostly have the build I want, something else occurs to me. The Blockable Limitation is really only meant to be used with Ranged attacks, not Area Effect attacks (which Arc fits under). Additionally, with the latter (as well as Cone) you don't really have the option of Dodging, rather you can just try to use Dodge and Drop to get out of the area. A melee cone/arc, however, is going to be possible to Block, Dodge, or Parry, just like a melee attack.

Blockable has each additional legal defense be -5% (-5% for Block or Parry, -10% for both), implying adding Dodge to the mix might also be -5%, for a total of -15%. However, part of the cost of Area Effect/Arc/Cone is, arguably, the fact that you can't defend against it normally. For those, I could see justification to double the worth of Blockable, to -10% per additional legal defense. In this case, that's -30% total, or -20% net compared to the previous builds. That would change things to +40% and +80%, respectively, for -4/-8 as Imbuements (assuming a cost of 1 FP). I think that should work out just fine for my purposes.

Originally Posted by Rindis

In the case of a flaming blade, as described in the OP, I'd look at the Jet solution that was mentioned earlier.

As previously mentioned, Jet is unusable unless we ignore the rule about not decreasing Max Range independently of 1/2D. If we do ignore that rule Jet isn't needed, as we can just make it like your Burning Hands example, but with appropriate Limitations for being able to be blocked, dodged, and/or parried. Or, as I think I prefer, we use a limited version of Area Effect - Arc - and modify it appropriately.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...

The Cone Enhancement doesn't work like that. Which is what we're talking about here.

Originally Posted by Basic Set p103

Decide on the maxi-
mum width of the cone, in yards, at
the attack’s maximum range. Cone
costs +50% plus +10% per yard of
maximum width.

If you want a 1 yard wide line attack, you take Cone @ +60%. If your attack has a max range of (e.g.) 10 and you want your cone to be 30 yards wide at that 10 yard point, then you take Cone at +350%.