[Powers] Melee Cone?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

This might actually be best modelled with the Jet enhancement, actually. High-Tech gives a special All-Out Attack option (High-Tech p. 178) to weapons like flamethrowers, but I think the rules could be generalized for any attack that uses Jet, not just Burning Attacks.

The Jet Enhancement and weapons like flamethrowers end up actually using very different rules, and I don't think the All Out effect is appropriate for the former. Additionally, I'm interested in abilities that function at melee ranges - that is, somewhere between C and 4 yards - not in 10 yard projected beams.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Melee Innate attacks follow the normal rules for melee attacks, so isn't this more sensibly a series of rapid strikes or a whirlwind attack?

One issue is that I'm not entirely happy with the way those options work out, and since such strikes aren't realistic anyway, I'd rather have them as Advantages than somewhat-clunky Combinations (like Cleaving Strike) or the Whirlwind Attack Technique.

Well, sort of. I'm actually intending to replace Cleaving Strike and Whirlwind Attack with Techniques built using my version of Imbuements - which requires figuring out how to build them as Advantages first (with Natural Weapon as the base).

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You should have to roll to hit targets with a sweeping melee attack, though.

Agreed. I haven't yet decided if the character should roll separately for each foe, or just once and use that roll as the attack on each foe, but I do want a roll to be needed. I think calling for a roll and not using Large Area Injury actually works out as a Feature when combined with being able to target actual hit locations, although I could be persuaded that this is a net Limitation (particularly, as evileeyore sort of brings up, this makes the attack much less useful against Diffuse targets).

Originally Posted by evileeyore

A sweeping attack that cannot miss? Area + Emanation.

I'd probably reduced the cost to +25 and call it Area (Arc) and rule it can hit 3 contiguous hexes that are all within reach.

A sweeping attack that can miss but has the chance to hit everything in it's path? Area (Arc) +25%.

So basically, instead of using a 360-degree Area, you cut the price and target size in half and have an Arc? That makes some sense, although it may be more GURPSy to reduce price by only 20%, so Area is +40%/level rather than +50%/level.

I really like this Arc suggestion, regardless of what price we ultimately decide on. Thanks, evileeyore - I think I'll go with this unless someone comes up with something better.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I'm interested in abilities that function at melee ranges - that is, somewhere between C and 4 yards - not in 10 yard projected beams.

Short Range works just as well on Jet as it does on normal Innate Attacks.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Sure. I'd actually check the Accessibility write up in... I think it's Power-Ups Limitations. I'm being lazy today or I'd have done that myself.

I was also too lazy to check, but I know from experience that 50% Accessible (which this sort of is) is a -20% Limitation.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Is there a way to add the ability to parry to a trait that is allowed to have the Melee limitation? The ability could built as an area attack with the ability to parry as a Melee weapon to approximate things.

Making this as an actual Advantage - rather than using the build to figure out the necessary Imbuement Technique - I'd make it a Natural Weapon with Ranged, which allows it to be used normally in melee. If not using Natural Weapon - say, for a magical blade of fire that deals damage completely independent of the character's ST* - I'd probably build it as two Alternative Attacks - one with Melee, the other with Arc (or Area Effect) and Emanation.

*Actually, I'd still build it as a Natural Weapon, with as many levels of Increased Damage as needed and allowed; if that were insufficient, I'd use the suggested One Attack Only -60% Limitation on Striking ST. But that's more because I actually prefer Natural Weapon over Innate Attack.

Originally Posted by Bruno

Short Range works just as well on Jet as it does on normal Innate Attacks.

Fair enough, but that still has the issue that you aren't supposed to reduce Max independently of 1/2D. If we ignore that rule as well as ignore the Cone and Jet incompatibility (as you previously suggested), an attack that strikes all three of the character's Front hexes would be Cone +80%, Jet +0%, Blockable -10%, Reduced Max Range x1/2 -5%, and Reduced Range x1/5 -20%, or a grand total of +45%. Of course, at this point Jet seems like a senseless option (the whole point is to avoid Range penalties, which this lacks), so dropping it and having Reduced Max Range x1/10 -15% and Reduced Range x1/10 -30% changes it to a net +25%. Instead using Arc +40%/level, this would be Arc +40%, Blockable -10%, Emanation -20%, for a total of +10%. As upgrading to affect all hexes within 1 yard of the character - with Area Effect +50% instead of Arc - is +20%, I think Arc is more appropriate here.

For the actual build I'm looking at, it occurs to me that the normal Ranged modifier is +40%, while Emanation is -20%, so it may be appropriate, with the Ranged modifier for Natural Weapon being +100%, to change Emanation to -50%. On a Natural Weapon, the first is something like Cone +80%, Ranged +100%, Blockable -10%, Reduced Max Range x1/10* -15%, Reduced Range x1/10* -30%, for a total of +125%. The Arc build would be Arc +40%, Ranged +100%, Blockable -10%, Emanation -50%, for a net +80%, or +90% to switch Arc out for Area Effect. It does occur to me that at this price, limiting it to only the front 3 hexes has so little effect on price most are likely to opt for just the full coverage. I'm honestly tempted to make it +100% for the Area Effect (fudging things a bit for an even -10 to hit in my Imbuement system), and +60% for only the front 3 hexes (boosting the Accessibility to -40%, which is probably a bit much), simply because those "feel" a bit more right to me, but that's a case where I'm taking the "proper" build and adjusting it a bit - in which case the proper build is at least giving me a jumping-off point.

*This assumes a character with ST 10 - higher ST actually gets more range, but you have to be at ST 20 before you'd really get a higher Limitation value anyway, so I think we're good here.

[evileeyore]

The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...

I don't see anything in the description of Cone that indicates this. An undefined cone, as for a weapon, spreads at a rate of 1 yard of width gained per yard of range, but there's nothing indicating this is the fastest it can spread. Even with that, I certainly prefer the Arc+Emanation route instead.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Varyon

An undefined cone, as for a weapon, spreads at a rate of 1 yard of width gained per yard of range, but there's nothing indicating this is the fastest it can spread.

Yeah, that's where it came from. undefined.

I suppose if the cone were 1 yd maximum range and 3 yd wide at range... then it's a 3 yd wide arc.

Huh.

[Rindis]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Yeah, that's where it came from. undefined.

I suppose if the cone were 1 yd maximum range and 3 yd wide at range... then it's a 3 yd wide arc.

Huh.

Which is what I did with Burning Hands. It's not RAW, as it requires extending the Reduced Range limitation, but otherwise it's fine.

In the case of a flaming blade, as described in the OP, I'd look at the Jet solution that was mentioned earlier.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

The problem with Cone is that in order to hit 3 hexes across the target has to be at least 3 hexes away...

The Cone Enhancement doesn't work like that. Which is what we're talking about here.

Originally Posted by Basic Set p103

Decide on the maxi-
mum width of the cone, in yards, at
the attack’s maximum range. Cone
costs +50% plus +10% per yard of
maximum width.

If you want a 1 yard wide line attack, you take Cone @ +60%. If your attack has a max range of (e.g.) 10 and you want your cone to be 30 yards wide at that 10 yard point, then you take Cone at +350%.