My Honest Opinion

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by malloyd

There is a lot of overlap between the way some GMs think you should punish players who want to play Honest characters and the way they want to abuse players of Paladins. It probably says more about them personally than about the actual intent of those rules.

If the rules have a trait like this and nothing else that explicitly involves playing a such a common literary trope as following a code of Truth and Justice, that's what the authors intended it to be for.

We have other traits that are intended for honest, morally upright characters.* Those include Code of Honour, Pacifism: Cannot Harm Innocents, Sense of Duty or Vow.

GURPS Honesty is pretty unsuitable for the protagonist of any kind of adventure, as it makes is difficult to impossible for the characters to take matters into their own hands, as opposed to leaving them to properly constituted authorities.

And as a compulsion to follow local laws, which explicitly doesn't have anything to do with telling the truth**, it's not exactly a good fit for a code of Truth and Justice.

*Depending on the specifics, of course, those can also suit characters dedicated to principles that most people would find repugnant.
**That's Truthfulness, as the Disadvantage description notes.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by Icelander

GURPS Honesty is pretty unsuitable for the protagonist of any kind of adventure, as it makes is difficult to impossible for the characters to take matters into their own hands, as opposed to leaving them to properly constituted authorities.

Unless they are the properly constituted authorities themselves, or the matter is out-of-context for the properly constituted authorities.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

Unless they are the properly constituted authorities themselves, or the matter is out-of-context for the properly constituted authorities.

Most adventures, as oppposed to slice of life stories, have elements that require authorities to be notified. And even of the PCs are cops or other authorities, following the law in such professions usually means that there is little narrative structure, as the PCs would do their jobs and turn the rest of the adventure over to other officers and specialists.

[Kalzazz]

One adventure my character being Honest actually got a higher reward

There was a seemingly odd accidental death, that a quest giver asked us to check out. We looked and started to suspect foul play

So my Honest character notified the town guard and requested permission to follow up. The guard said 'No, you can't. And there is NO crime here!'

So my character reported this to the local Duke and explained that it seemed odd, and the Duke said go ahead and see what you can turn up

When we finally figured it out, we got a reward from the Duke to

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Icelander

We have other traits that are intended for honest, morally upright characters.* Those include Code of Honour, Pacifism: Cannot Harm Innocents, Sense of Duty or Vow.

GURPS Honesty is pretty unsuitable for the protagonist of any kind of adventure, as it makes is difficult to impossible for the characters to take matters into their own hands, as opposed to leaving them to properly constituted authorities.

It's perfectly suitable...in fact I'd say mandatory for any character who is a stand in for a D&D Paladin. It's not a problem for superheroes apart from issues associated with secret identities. In English Common Law settings you are allowed to rescue people and stop felonies just as long as you hang around to talk to the cops afterward. It works for actual cops.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's perfectly suitable...in fact I'd say mandatory for any character who is a stand in for a D&D Paladin. It's not a problem for superheroes apart from issues associated with secret identities. In English Common Law settings you are allowed to rescue people and stop felonies just as long as you hang around to talk to the cops afterward. It works for actual cops.

All D&D Paladins I've seen believed in a code of conduct that didn't change depending on jurisdiction. If a foreign realm they visited had bad laws designed to oppress minorities, they were under no obligation to 'do their best' so that everyone obeyed those bad laws.

Also, it's not enough to just hang around to talk to the cops. You've got to actually tell the cops the truth, too. Including, in the vast majority of cases, things that you may not think are relevant, but the cops do. Like who you are. Not just your stripper or superhero name, but your actual legal identity.

[Celjabba]

One thing I noticed is that when you have a player who is a specialist in a field at a game table, he will often be rightfully very vocal if the less knowing GM is approximate, or worse, wrong, on the subject. Architecture, history, arms and armor, ship handling, whatever. On subject they don't know about however, anything goes.
I could probably have one of my player sailing on the Victory in 640 AD without him noticing something wrong, but woe is me if I confuse monophysites and nestorian... (I will not !)
Icelander, unless I am wrong, you are a lawyer.
It may be that an average western citizen today unwillingly break 6 laws before breakfast. You would know it, and knowing it, the honesty disad certainly is a terrible burden.
I wouldn't know, my players neither, and our perception of the disads will therefore be , I believe, quite different !

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Icelander

All D&D Paladins I've seen believed in a code of conduct that didn't change depending on jurisdiction.

Same with me. And that code included respecting the local laws if they were there as visitors. It was different if they were there to make war on the place of course or if they rejected the jurisdiction as illegitimate.

Also, it's not enough to just hang around to talk to the cops. You've got to actually tell the cops the truth, too. Including, in the vast majority of cases, things that you may not think are relevant, but the cops do. Like who you are. Not just your stripper or superhero name, but your actual legal identity.

As I said the "apart from issues associated with secret identities". And the answer is simple. Don't have a secret identity. Or have a setting where the laws accommodate secret identities. Sidekick Girl for example.