[Basic] Realistic Low Tech Challengers

[A Ladder]

Originally Posted by phayman53

Haven't had time to read it all, but two things I noticed while scanning it:

1) Roman Legionnaire should have higher HT on average, hiking and other endurance activities are what they did. I would expect the average Legionnaire to be more fit than HT10 with the fit advantage. They also should probably be stronger than ST11, they did train with double weight gladii and scutums.

2) English Longbowmen should be stronger than ST11, at least in the arms. War bows started at 80 lbs and English bows were often much heavier. There are very few people who can pull that kind of weight and it requires extensive training and continuous upkeep.

I was wondering if the Legionnaires were too low on those stats as well. Thanks!

My longbowmen have Arm Strength 2 to go with their bows, I figured that would work for training to shoot their warbows.

[Purple Haze]

Your hunters should have only spears. One does not hunt with clubs and axes. Also they should be wield axe and club with a single skill.

Roman legionaries should not have bow or sling. Those were wielded by auxillia usually foreigners.

Your Spartan and hoplite should have long spears or even pikes.

[A Ladder]

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

Your hunters should have only spears. One does not hunt with clubs and axes. Also they should be wield axe and club with a single skill.

Roman legionaries should not have bow or sling. Those were wielded by auxillia usually foreigners.

Your Spartan and hoplite should have long spears or even pikes.

One of my sources for neanderthal theorized that they would hide and jump on their prey, smashing them with axe or club. I find that hilarious enough to leave on them. However, I will go and remove that on my cavemen hunters.

Man, I could have sworn I read about legionnaire archers/slingers. I guess I'll split them up into Legionnaire and Auxillia.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by A Ladder

Man, I could have sworn I read about legionnaire archers/slingers. I guess I'll split them up into Legionnaire and Auxillia.

Vegetius says something about legionaries being required to train with slings.

[JoelSammallahti]

Originally Posted by A Ladder

One of my sources for neanderthal theorized that they would hide and jump on their prey, smashing them with axe or club.

Khoi-San do hunt with clubs, but it's a different method: they run the animal down over several km until it's too tired to bolt, and then club it to death. :D

Re: musketeers, the musket in Low-Tech has minimum ST 12, so I'd say make your musketeers beefier or give them caravels.

Oh, and this is a brilliant thread. Chapeau!

[A Ladder]

Originally Posted by Tuk the Weekah

I'd not include Dull if you're looking at a realistic representation. There's zero evidence that Neanderthals were in any way mentally deficient when compared to modern humans
<SNIP>
I do not understand the rationale behind the one-weapon rule; it seems irrational. A hunter would carry a scraping tool, a knife, and some type of bush tool (a hand axe, for instance). Once you've killed the animal, you have to bleed it, then butcher it. Even if you don't use fire, you'll still need to clear brush for a shelter.

I read somewhere that Neanderthals were wiped out by homo sapiens because they didn't have as good as tool making mental facilities as our ancestors. So I'll consider removing it.
As to the one weapon rule, that's a carry over from a caveman template I found somewhere on the internet. I should get rid of it.

Originally Posted by mikeejimbo

Shouldn't the Legionnaire have Thrown Weapon (Spear)-13 listed in skills for the pilum? I see the pilum was written up in the brief table of the weapons/skills/damage and the equipment.

Thanks! there's a couple reasons why I showed this to the forum, and catching stuff like that is one of them. I've gone back and edited it.

Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti

Khoi-San do hunt with clubs, but it's a different method: they run the animal down over several km until it's too tired to bolt, and then club it to death. :D

Re: musketeers, the musket in Low-Tech has minimum ST 12, so I'd say make your musketeers beefier or give them caravels.

Oh, and this is a brilliant thread. Chapeau!

Sweet, definetly giving them more equipment and keeping those skills then. Probably going to add Running as well.

Basic Set has a musket at ST 10, but it also includes the rifle rest.

The intent of these writeups was to be mostly compatible with the Basic Set and not rely too heavily on supplements. (Though how can you have Spartans and Roman Legionnaires without Shield Wall Training?)

[Tuk the Weekah]

Originally Posted by A Ladder

I read somewhere that Neanderthals were wiped out by homo sapiens because they didn't have as good as tool making mental facilities as our ancestors. So I'll consider removing it.

Very old thinking.

Current tidbits about Neanderthal: their blood clotted more quickly than homo sapiens sapiens--an advantage when fighting close-range with prey, a disadvantage when it comes to heart disease; they were lactose-intolerant; it's possible that male Neanderthal/human hybrids were infertile, while female hybrids were not; it's possible that they had what we would consider hyperactive immune systems, and were actually wiped out by allergies when non-native plants moved north through Europe during climate change following the Ice Age. Then there is the increased risk for Crohn's disease, and the Type-2 diabetes....

Basically, the current thinking all boils down to Neanderthal had too small & too localized a breeding population, and were wiped out by accumulated in-breeding. We just took advantage of their gap in the eco-system.

Or, possibly, it was the wolf that did it. We had wolves (dogs); they did not. Makes running down prey animals so much easier.

[Jasonft]

Originally Posted by Tuk the Weekah

Or, possibly, it was the wolf that did it. We had wolves (dogs); they did not. Makes running down prey animals so much easier.

I was wondering if Neanderthals were ever recorded as having dogs. In a TL0 setting you almost can't overstate the advantages of having a loyal canine companion. Their senses of hearing and smell would give you an astounding advantage.

We still have guard dogs and hunting dogs even now.

[phayman53]

Originally Posted by A Ladder

My longbowmen have Arm Strength 2 to go with their bows, I figured that would work for training to shoot their warbows.

Oops, I missed that (was reading it on my phone). That is a good move. You should also probably give them the Strongbow perk from [MA]. That would give +1 to ST for bows at skill DX+1 and +2 ST for bows at skill DX+2. That would give you a ST15 bow if the soldier knows bow at DX+2, which is equivalent to a 2 handed lifting ST of 90 lbs.