Can I grapple with Bite+arms in one attack?

[DouglasCole]

A two-handed grapple is one attack. A bite is a second one. If you're doing both at the same target, it would seem Dual-Weapon Attack would be a great fit here.

[Terwin]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

A two-handed grapple is one attack. A bite is a second one. If you're doing both at the same target, it would seem Dual-Weapon Attack would be a great fit here.

That sounds like a good option if this were to be come a regular thing, but I doubt it will happen more than 1-2 times in the entire game, and with point totals starting around 100 and still under 150, AOA-double is probably the best I can muster.(Edit: AOA-Determined would counter the DWA-4, so AOA-detrmined+DWA could be a good option for the -1 defense. I sometimes forget that DWA can still be a viable option without buying up the technique)

Hopefully I can manage to be both down-wind and behind the target to set up the attack.(I believe this removes the chance to defend which in turn removes the need for the evaluate)

Would a successful bite/grapple lend any assistance to the two armed grapple?

[Terwin]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

The penalty you.can inflict on attributes with the first grapple could impede the defenses imposed against the second grapple.

Good point, if I can't maneuver into an attack from behind/other no-defense attack, the target would get -1 to dodge from each of DWA and the existing grapple.

Doing the grab first does not work well in this case, mostly because the character does not have the skill levels to either target the neck or do deceptive attacks without bringing the effective skill below 16.(the grapple will need a 2 second evaluate just to get up to an effective skill of 16, even with AOA-Determined to counter the untrained DWA penalty)

[Terwin]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Instead of going right for the neck, you could grapple the torso and then I think this reduces the penalties for targeting the neck if you transition from a prexisting grapple.

I was thinking that after acquiring the grapple, I could release the bite and do an AOA-determined to bite the neck. That way I have the two-handed grapple with the +5 vs escape even if the neck-bite fails.

Then again, if the target has an unmodified dodge of 10, even with a -1 for being grappled, it may be better to just worry on the torso for 1d-1(cutting) every turn. Even against DR1, that is still an average of 2 2/3 damage per turn with no attack roll.(worrying the neck is 3 1/3 damage/turn, faster but not a lot faster)

Of course there is also the concern of a counter-attack from the boar. If the neck is not grappled, it may well be able to bite/gore and that would be doing a lot more damage than worrying, even with a -4 to the attack roll.
With the neck grappled there is still the kick to worry about, but with the extra -2 to attack and the -1 damage for being a quadruped, odds of a hit are low and the damage will be less than the worry(1d cr vs 2DR attacking around 6-8 as opposed to 1d-1 cutting vs 1 DR without an attack roll)

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

Technical grappling probablynalso has something about control point maximum, like your trained ST is the sum of three?

Page 6, "Nonhuman and Superhuman Grapplers," and page 7, "Calculating Grip ST," are the relevant bits. An Trained ST 10 character grappling with both arms and the mouth* would have functional Trained ST 14. This is because you work it out by combining BL, then determining effective ST from that - ST 10 and ST 10 is BL 20 + BL 20, for BL 40, which is just a touch above ST 14 (BL 39.2).

*Grappling using a bite might not benefit from Trained ST from sources other than Brawling, unless you have a Perk to let you use, say, Wrestling for bite-based grapples**. Also, while Technical Grappling gives the bite the same ST as using both arms, it might be more appropriate to use relative SM like in Martial Arts - having the same SM or being smaller than your target would count as a one-handed grapple, for 0.5xST, which combines with ST 10 for ST 11. If the target is smaller than you, you use 1xST, for ST 14, as above.

**Personally, I simply allow for a single Perk per skill, called Beastly Combat, that lets the character use non-standard bits - teeth, claws, tails, etc - with unarmed skills that don't usually allow such (like Karate).

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Also, while Technical Grappling gives the bite the same ST as using both arms, it might be more appropriate to use relative SM like in Martial Arts

If you do this, you should use the relative SM rules on p. 9.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

If you do this, you should use the relative SM rules on p. 9.

Are you saying to combine these options, or to only use the TG one? Personally, I feel you should use actual SM for the "Bigger and Stronger!" rules, but use Born Biter SM for determining if it's one-handed or two-handed. So, a Chinese Alligator (SM -1, Jaw ST 11, Born Biter 3, Wrestling at DX+2 - from here) fighting another SM -1 creature has an effective TST 13 and its grapples count as two-handed. Against an SM +0 creature, it still has TST 13 and two-handed grapples, but the foe has a +15% boost to TST and +1 to DX. Against SM +1 things are similar, but the foe gets a +30% boost to TST and +2 to DX. Against SM +2, its grapples are now counted as one-handed, so it only has TST 7*, and the foe is at +45% to ST and +3 to DX.

Against smaller creatures, its grapples are still two-handed, but now it gets the bonuses to TST and DX. An SM -2 target, for example, has to contend with TST 15** and DX 13 (for Wrestling 15).

*ST is halved to 5, then the +2 Training bonus boosts it to 7.
**I know GURPS is usually round down, but I just can't bring myself to round 14.95 down to 14.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Are you saying to combine these options, or to only use the TG one?

The TG one only, because a one-handed grapple is represented by low control points (ST is halved for only using one hand; you can alternatively just roll regular damage and halve it, which will be faster at the table).

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

The TG one only, because a one-handed grapple is represented by low control points (ST is halved for only using one hand; you can alternatively just roll regular damage and halve it, which will be faster at the table).

Just to make certain we're on the same page here, I'm specifically referring to the handling of bites. TG currently has bites roughly equivalent to two handed grapples (generating as many CP as damage rolled, meaning using full ST, albeit if untrained you have a -1 to damage relative to a two-handed grab) regardless of relative size. My suggestion was that, against foes who are the same size as you or larger, you'd basically use half the rolled damage to determine CP, functionally making such bites into one-handed grapples.