KYOS - getting rid of thrust and swing damage

Leynok · 01-11-2017, 08:55 AM

It would be easy to do honestly. Just change all instances of a thrust attack to dealing 2 damage less than what is printed (assuming you keep with the 10 ST = 1d formula).

kdtipa · 01-11-2017, 11:09 AM

My big problem with the Thr/Sw system is that the damage progression isn't a pattern that can be defined with one mathematical equation. ST below 10 has its own thing, and once you get to a certain point the damage only changes at multiples of 5, and then at another point it's a different pattern at multiples of 10...

It's super confusing. But I do like having a distinction between Thrust and Swing. I like that a swing weapon at normal ST levels is going to do a fair amount more than a thrust weapon. It makes sense to me that if I swing a baseball bat as an attack, I'm going to do far more damage than if I thrust it.

I don't think just having one damage progression and then saying thrust equals that progression -2 will work... it's not enough of a difference at high ST, and it'll mean there's no good reason to bother with a swung weapon for high damage when a thrusting weapon will do almost as much and might have other benefits that a swung weapon wouldn't have.

I like that there are considerations to make.

This is of enough interest to me, that I'm going to spend some time at work trying to figure out what I would do (and might implement in my current campaign). I'll post the results if you're interested.

Anders · 01-11-2017, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leynok

It would be easy to do honestly. Just change all instances of a thrust attack to dealing 2 damage less than what is printed (assuming you keep with the 10 ST = 1d formula).

That is, in essence, what I'm proposing. For instance, Greatsword (sw+3 cut/thr+3 imp) would change to Greatsword (+3 cut/+1 imp).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kdtipa

My big problem with the Thr/Sw system is that the damage progression isn't a pattern that can be defined with one mathematical equation. ST below 10 has its own thing, and once you get to a certain point the damage only changes at multiples of 5, and then at another point it's a different pattern at multiples of 10...

That's one of the things fixed by Know Your Own Strength.

Ulzgoroth · 01-11-2017, 12:28 PM

Thrust vs. Swing as an attack type matters for unarmed parries (Basic Set) and for fighting in confined spaces (Underground Adventures). I think you need to be using a thrust attack to hold back a charging enemy too (Martial Arts?)

None of which requires keeping Sw/Thr in the damage codes. But distinguishing which sort of movement an attack mode involves does matter for a few things.

kdtipa · 01-11-2017, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders

That's one of the things fixed by Know Your Own Strength.

What about ST below 10? Is damage for ST 1, 1d-9? I'm actually curious because I'm not familiar with KYOS

Anders · 01-11-2017, 12:37 PM

Yeah, but there are workarounds. Small creatures are not actually incapable of hurting people.

Tyneras · 01-11-2017, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders

Yeah, but there are workarounds. Small creatures are not actually incapable of hurting people.

Part of that issue is the 1 HP level of granularity. Dozens of 0.25 HP bites would be very scary, but awkward to model.

Anthony · 01-11-2017, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders

Yeah, but there are workarounds. Small creatures are not actually incapable of hurting people.

The damage mechanism in KYOS is fairly improbable for any ST outside of the range of maybe 5-20.

Anders · 01-11-2017, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

The damage mechanism in KYOS is fairly improbable for any ST outside of the range of maybe 5-20.

I think it can work, but you have to rework the bonuses for Weapon Master/Karate-Boxing-Brawling/Hooves/etc. from +1/+2 per die to +1/+2 period. What is your experience with it?

Anthony · 01-11-2017, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders

I think it can work, but you have to rework the bonuses for Weapon Master/Karate-Boxing-Brawling/Hooves/etc. from +1/+2 per die to +1/+2 period. What is your experience with it?

A ST of 70 can pick up a battleship (BL 10,000 tons) and cannot scratch its paint with an attack (Thrust 15d+2). At the other end of things, a rat with a ST of -10 has a Thrust damage of 1d-22, or 1d-12/10 if you use the rule of 10s.

01-11-2017, 08:55 AM	#1
Leynok Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Australia WA	Re: KYOS - getting rid of thrust and swing damage It would be easy to do honestly. Just change all instances of a thrust attack to dealing 2 damage less than what is printed (assuming you keep with the 10 ST = 1d formula).

01-11-2017, 11:09 AM	#2
kdtipa Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Southern New Hampshire	Re: KYOS - getting rid of thrust and swing damage My big problem with the Thr/Sw system is that the damage progression isn't a pattern that can be defined with one mathematical equation. ST below 10 has its own thing, and once you get to a certain point the damage only changes at multiples of 5, and then at another point it's a different pattern at multiples of 10... It's super confusing. But I do like having a distinction between Thrust and Swing. I like that a swing weapon at normal ST levels is going to do a fair amount more than a thrust weapon. It makes sense to me that if I swing a baseball bat as an attack, I'm going to do far more damage than if I thrust it. I don't think just having one damage progression and then saying thrust equals that progression -2 will work... it's not enough of a difference at high ST, and it'll mean there's no good reason to bother with a swung weapon for high damage when a thrusting weapon will do almost as much and might have other benefits that a swung weapon wouldn't have. I like that there are considerations to make. This is of enough interest to me, that I'm going to spend some time at work trying to figure out what I would do (and might implement in my current campaign). I'll post the results if you're interested.

01-11-2017, 12:28 PM	#4
Ulzgoroth Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: KYOS - getting rid of thrust and swing damage Thrust vs. Swing as an attack type matters for unarmed parries (Basic Set) and for fighting in confined spaces (Underground Adventures). I think you need to be using a thrust attack to hold back a charging enemy too (Martial Arts?) None of which requires keeping Sw/Thr in the damage codes. But distinguishing which sort of movement an attack mode involves does matter for a few things. __________________ I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

01-11-2017, 12:37 PM	#6
Anders Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden	Re: KYOS - getting rid of thrust and swing damage Yeah, but there are workarounds. Small creatures are not actually incapable of hurting people. __________________ “When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius Author of Winged Folk. The GURPS Discord. Drop by and say hi!