Thoughts on Unkillable

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by ericthered

This thread isn't too old, so I don't feel that bad bringing it back...

What is the source of the 'mortal' -20% limitation. I think its a kromm-post or some other forum source, but I can't remember exactly what. Does anyone know the source? A shallow search has failed me...

As noted, the "official" source is PK's MyGURPS page, but from previous posts of his and others, the Limitation actually came up in discussions/playtests, with general agreement on the price by Kromm. So, while it isn't actually official, it's incredibly close - I imagine if someone were to include it in a Pyramid article or full book, it would get through without issue.

I think it's basically in a category of "This isn't RAW only because it hasn't been published yet."

...

So, I've determined the answers I think I'm going to go with for my "Outstanding Questions" from post #30. For Achilles Heel and Hindrance, Achilles Heel is considered to be one category more common than normal with Unkillable 2 (because it's easier to use than it "should" be), while Hindrance is considered to be one category less common than normal with Unkillable 3 (because it's harder to use than it "should" be). The current prices are probably fine in both cases with Unkillable 1.

For a character who has Unkillable 2, but for whom this is upgraded to Unkillable 3 after some set amount of time has passed, use the pricing for Immediate Preparation Required, but add +10%. Note this is only applied to the last [50] of the trait, not the whole thing. This is only available if the character has something like Hindrance or Achilles Heel that would make the extra time actually meaningful. You may be able to apply this same Limitation to various "Only While Dead" abilities as well.

I've decided to go ahead and allow for Limitations below -80% to turn the excess into relevant Advantages. Limitations that already apply to the primary Advantage can't be taken again for these additional "free" ones, but other Limitations are fair game.

For characters with Unkillable 2 (Mortal), Death does 2xHP in injury, and you otherwise just use your current total. For characters with Unkillable 1 (Mortal), the situation is the same, but the extra damage won't drop you below -5xHP or your current HP, whichever is lower. For Unkillable 3 (Mortal), Death simply drops you to -10xHP - it doesn't matter what state your body was in when you died if you make a new one upon coming back. That said, I think there could be room to allow for a character with Unkillable 3 to treat themselves as though they had Unkillable 2, repairing their original body instead of making a new one, with the option to break away and make a new one after all if that's more convenient. That's probably alright to treat as the default, but if not, a Perk should be enough to justify it.

Here are some examples to clear up the last two paragraphs. Getting away from Unkillable for a moment, let's say a character has Flight with -120% worth of Limitations. That extra -40% would normally be worth [16], so he could use that to buy Enhanced Move (Air) [20] for only [4]. It would only work when he had access to Flight, but wouldn't get any further discount for that. However, if his Flight doesn't have Winged -25%, he could tack that onto the second level of Enhanced Move (Air) to drop the total price to [15] (the remaining [1] either being lost or spent on some Flight-related Perk). In the case of Unkillable, you could pick up Regeneration (Only While Dead), but it would only be usable if Unkillable is functioning normally (so a Hindrance can't get in the way).

For the effect of Death, let's consider four characters. Alice has Unkillable 1 (Mortal), Bob has Unkillable 2 (Mortal), Charles has Unkillable 3 (Mortal), and Delilah has Unkillable 3 (Mortal) and Perk: Can Regenerate Dead Body. Let's say all four are at a dinner party where an "instant death" poison has been administered, but were otherwise perfectly healthy. They all fail their HT check against the poison. Alice and Bob will drop to -1xHP and fall dead, but their bodies will start slowly regenerating. Charles will drop to -10xHP and fall dead, but will reform elsewhere. Delilah will be the same as Alice and Bob, but if someone starts hacking away at the bodies, she could abandon hers, joining Charles at -10xHP and reforming elsewhere. If the guards chase off the assassins, Delilah could opt to go back into her hacked-up body - now at, say, -3xHP - and regenerate from there. If instead of poison there were a bomb that dropped each of them to -2xHP, failing the Death Check would drop Alice and Bob to -4xHP, Charles would still be at -10xHP, and Delilah would get to choose (and could later change her choice). For a stronger bomb that dropped them each to -4xHP, Alice would drop to -5xHP, Bob to -6xHP. Charles would still be at -10xHP, Delilah would have a choice between Bob's condition and Charles'. If the bomb dropped them each to -8xHP, Alice would be at -8xHP, while Bob, Charles, and Delilah would all be at -10xHP. Delilah might still opt to stay with her body rather than form a new one, simply because it will allow her to respawn at the same place as where she died, but if an animal happens along and chews on the regenerating bodies she'll be coming back a bit slower.

As for why I went with the death progression I did, here are my thoughts. It makes sense that a less-damaged corpse would come back more quickly than a completely annihilated one, but this greatly lessens the impact of failing a Death Check, so I wanted a bit more from that - which I felt would be appropriate as extra damage. I opted for 2xHP so that a character who dies from something other than damage - the above poison, a death spell, whatever - is still guaranteed to drop to -1xHP, at least enough to have died to start with. At the same time, however, I didn't want a character with Unkillable 1 (Mortal) to suffer Final Death more readily than one without the Mortal Limitation, so I opted to cap the damage, and -5xHP (guaranteed death) seemed a good place for that. Because a character with Unkillable 3 cannot have their body messed with to delay revival, however, this scheme would greatly reduce the impact of Mortal on such characters, so I opted to have them be treated as always dropping to -10xHP. Unfortunately, this would lead to situations where one would be better off with Unkillable 2 than Unkillable 3, and honestly the idea of a spirit reinhabiting (and repairing) its original body doesn't seem far off, so I felt that should be an option. It's of such limited use that simply treating it as the default or requiring a token investment of a Perk seemed appropriate.