Surprise periodic checks

[Stormcrow]

Traveling and camping is a fairly common thing to do in role-playing games, especially in the fantasy genre. In GURPS, someone in the party needs to roll against Survival skill every day to prevent the members of the group from taking hit point damage. (Its counterpart Urban Survival doesn't list any negative result for failure.) I've seen players get surprised and indignant when they couldn't "just camp for the night" like they do in other games, and had to risk damage.

Are there any other skills or situations with "gotcha" effects that are commonly seen by adventurers like the one with Survival? I don't mean things like taking the lower of Vacc Suit or a DX skill when in a spacesuit; I mean things you commonly need to roll on adventures that players would not necessarily know about unless they already had the skill or ability needed.

[Refplace]

Traveling skills like Hiking, Swimming and possibly Job rolls are the only ones I can think of at the moment.
If they object to not being able to travel the wilderness without rolls like "those other games" then tell them either they assume you have the skills as part of your class, or there just not very realistic.
They can also buy up skill high enough and get a Nuisance roll perk.

[Stormcrow]

I wasn't considering job rolls because those aren't things that happen during adventures. Hiking is a skill players will choose to use or not; you don't need to make Hiking rolls unless you're trying to go faster. Swimming isn't a gotcha roll; no one would reasonably object to periodic Swimming (or Climbing, or Lifting, etc.) rolls when going beyond one's Move score.

[trooper6]

I don't know if "traveling and camping" is the same thing as "living off the land." Basic says the survival skill, "is the ability to 'live off the land,' find safe food and water, avoid hazards, build shelter, etc. You may look after up to 10 other people. To live safely in a wilderness situation, you must make a successful Survival roll once per day. Failure inflicts 2d-4 injury on you and anyone in your care; roll separately for each victim."

This sounds more like that reality show Survivor or people stuck in the Andes after a plane crash than it does an adventuring party with full gear and rations stopping to sleep for the night, or family goes camping at a camp site. As a GM, I don't think I'd make them roll when they aren't actually trying to survive, but just spend the night. The roll also seems to me to be an abstraction in lieu of gaming out the encounter for the day. I'd also be happy to, rather than have them use one roll, game out the entire day if they are so inclined.

Also, if as a GM, you plan on having campers and people spending the night with all their gear make these rolls or suffer damage, then just tell your players ahead of time so they know to get the skill, and then it is no gotcha.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by trooper6

Also, if as a GM, you plan on having campers and people spending the night with all their gear make these rolls or suffer damage, then just tell your players ahead of time so they know to get the skill, and then it is no gotcha.

This is basically it. I make a "Must Have" list of skills that I hand out to the Players before chargen so they know what to expect and what the penalties for skipping those skills are.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

This is basically it. I make a "Must Have" list of skills that I hand out to the Players before chargen so they know what to expect and what the penalties for skipping those skills are.

And if you forget to mention one (as I have) let those inclined buy it retroactively with saved points.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by trooper6

I don't know if "traveling and camping" is the same thing as "living off the land."

How To Be a GURPS GM treats them as the same. The party of three characters are riding around a wilderness and need to make daily Survival rolls. Their food appears to be treated as part of the basic equipment for the Survival skill. Is this wrong?

At what point do travelers switch from camping to living off the land?

Also, if as a GM, you plan on having campers and people spending the night with all their gear make these rolls or suffer damage, then just tell your players ahead of time so they know to get the skill, and then it is no gotcha.

Hence the need to identify the gotcha rolls.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

How To Be a GURPS GM treats them as the same. The party of three characters are riding around a wilderness and need to make daily Survival rolls. Their food appears to be treated as part of the basic equipment for the Survival skill. Is this wrong?

At what point do travelers switch from camping to living off the land?



Hence the need to identify the gotcha rolls.

I would say Camping is when your well supplied and any hunting or foraging you do is for variety and fun. Or even to stretch your supplies.
Living off the land means all your food and water come from your rolls.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I would say Camping is when your well supplied and any hunting or foraging you do is for variety and fun. Or even to stretch your supplies.
Living off the land means all your food and water come from your rolls.

I agree. I also would say that camping additionally happens in relatively safe/controlled locations, Living off the Land that needs Survival rolls happens in less safe/controlled locations.

For example, let's say you are a party of adventurers who have sleeping rolls, Iron rations, a tent maybe. You are traveling down a road from City A to Town B. You are traveling most of the day, stopping to eat your rations when you are hungry. Then at the end of the day you pull off the road and go a bit into the forest, not to far, but far enough that anyone traveling on the road wouldn't see your camp. Then you make a Camouflage roll because you are a bit paranoid and then sleep till morning, perhaps with some people keeping watch. That does not sound like a situation where anyone needs to make a Survival roll.

On the other hand. Let's say your party is tracking through the uncharted desert looking for the Lost Temple. You have full supplies and everything you need. I'd allow you to roll Survival to try and stretch your supplies, but you have water and food and shelter...I'm not going to make you roll "living off the land" because you aren't living off the land. Now, you keep adventuring and you run out of supplies...you still haven't found the Lost Temple...but you keep looking. Now you have to live off the land in order to Survive. You still have some good gear, like shelter and weapons and empty waterskins and appropriate clothing, so you'll get equipment bonuses, but you are now in a position that if you can't make your survival rolls you are going to be in serious trouble.

Still note, that if surviving in the desert were part of the adventure itself, I'd probably play though their attempts to survive rather than just do a roll.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I would say Camping is when your well supplied and any hunting or foraging you do is for variety and fun. Or even to stretch your supplies.
Living off the land means all your food and water come from your rolls.

For me:

Camping is when I bust out the Camping rules from DF 16 Wilderness pg 24. They can find a good sheltering site and avoid penalties ( or gain bonuses) to rolls on watches and mitigate FP loss due to lack of equipment (if necessary).

Living off the land is when they are devoid of certain basic necessities such as, but not limited to: Food, Water, or Shelter. I use a variant of the Hunting/Foraging rules drawn from the Basic book, DF16, and High Tech.