[Basic] Skill of the week: Fishing, Survival and Urban Survival

[johndallman]

Those could well be Seamanship, and Spacer, I think. They exceed the described scope of those skills, but the boat example, at least, is something I'd expect an experienced seaman to know.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by RogerBW

Apologies for necromancy, but I think this is relevant here: what about Survival for terrain you can't innately live in?

For example, what skill(s) should you learn for knowing what to do in these situations?

• Being adrift in an open boat, on salt water, after your plane's been shot down
• Trekking across the surface of the Moon (in a vacc suit, but you still have to worry about temperature and terrain)

In either case I'd allow (despite it being outside the scope as written) a Survival specialty specific to and comprehensively covering those contexts, though I would expect either to be rare in most settings.

Many aspects could fall under other more-common skills though. johndallman's suggestions are certainly good for some aspects, and Soldier for vacc troopers would also be useful. Applicable Naturalist can easily be applied in either case.

Survival (Desert) would be particularly handy for the open boat, since sun and lack of fresh water are major theats. Survival (Arctic) if you're in a cold area rather than the tropics. Obviously Fishing is desirable at sea, though if you don't have a stock of water getting food probably won't help you all that much. In an open boat one of your most important skills would be Boating and if necessary Navigation (Sea), to get you somewhere you can get back out of the open boat as soon as possible.

On the moon, your top skills are probably Vacc Suit and (weirdly) Hiking. Adjustment to the local gravity would be desirable. Vacc Suit should cover most of your temperature concerns, I would think, though if there are any special environment-specific tricks (I can't really think of any) you'd probably be coming up with them at a penalty relative to the ideal lunar survivalist. For terrain, Naturalist or Geology are good, and of course Area Knowledge is great for terrain within its scope.

[safisher]

Originally Posted by RogerBW

Being adrift in an open boat, on salt water, after your plane's been shot down

The real world training for it is Survival (Island/Beach). WWI ace Eddie Rickenbacker was the father, in many ways, of modern maritime survival gear in the US military.

Trekking across the surface of the Moon (in a vacc suit, but you still have to worry about temperature and terrain)

Survival (Moon) would do it. Survival allows specialization by planet.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by safisher

Survival (Moon) would do it. Survival allows specialization by planet.

On one hand, yes, it does.

But on the other, the core skill of Survival is the ability to survive in a "shirtsleeve" environment, more or less; that is, in an environment that is not quickly lethal to an unprotected human being (or whatever sort of being you are). Note for example that there are eight land terrain skills for earthlike planets, and eight water terrain skills; but a land animal such as Homo sapiens does not get defaults in the water terrain skills, and in general they don't default to land terrain skills, and vice versa. Conditions on Mars or Saturn are even more alien to Homo sapiens than conditions in the oceans.

Yes, you could survive in some of those environments with the right technological gear. But a TL0 human could not have or make suitable gear. We're looking at a tech skill that has very little in common with an Inuit's Survival (Arctic) or an Australian aborigine's Survival (Desert). Calling it by the same name, or giving it the same mechanics, really doesn't make good sense; it seems like being confused by language into thinking that if there is a word then there must be a thing.

Of course if there were life on Mars then a native of Mars could have Survival (Desert) or Survival (Canal) or whatever for a Marslike environment. But that would be because they were at home there in a way a human couldn't be. And they wouldn't have any Survival skills for earth; they would need advanced tech to survive here.

[safisher]

Originally Posted by whswhs

On one hand, yes, it does.

Very specifically, Survival can be categorized by planet type. Those are, per p.180:

Gas Giants: Jupiter/Uranus types.
Hostile Terrestrial: Venus types.
Ice Dwarfs: Comets and small moons composed almost entirely of
snow or ice.
Ice Worlds: Rock worlds covered by a frozen “ocean.”
Rock Worlds: Most moons, asteroids, etc.

As you might note, you aren't living there in shirtsleeves.

But on the other, the core skill of Survival is the ability to survive in a "shirtsleeve" environment, more or less; that is, in an environment that is not quickly lethal to an unprotected human being (or whatever sort of being you are).

There's no requirement for a shirtsleeve environment. Survival skill mentions "radioactive wastelands" and that very much implies that equipment is needed, and perhaps other gear skills could be used in addition to Survival.

But a TL0 human could not have or make suitable gear.

Survival is about taking care of yourself and others in any environment, and has rather generous defaults as a result. GURPS Space, for instance, has Survival (colony environment) for Colonists. GURPS Ultra-Tech allows a Survival roll when using a rescue bubble, which is gear specifically for non-shirtsleeve environment. Vacc Suit skill can also be used, of course.

Area Knowledge and Expert Skill (Planetology) could certainly work in certain circumstances, and several skills mention having an "eye for country" element, too. But Survival is officially the all-in-one "live off the land" or "what I need to know to save my life" skill.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by safisher

Survival is about taking care of yourself and others in any environment, and has rather generous defaults as a result. GURPS Space, for instance, has Survival (colony environment) for Colonists. GURPS Ultra-Tech allows a Survival roll when using a rescue bubble, which is gear specifically for non-shirtsleeve environment. Vacc Suit skill can also be used, of course.

Area Knowledge and Expert Skill (Planetology) could certainly work in certain circumstances, and several skills mention having an "eye for country" element, too. But Survival is officially the all-in-one "live off the land" or "what I need to know to save my life" skill.

On the other hand, there is certainly gear that a human being could use to survive in an underwater environment. But the Basic Set rules state explicitly that land-dwellers cannot take any of the eight aquatic skills (though they can take Tropical Lagoon at Island/Beach-4 or River/Stream at Swampland-4, as defaults). And they also say that there is no default at all between Survival skills for terrains on two planets of different types.

And really, that makes sense. The core definition of Survival is as the ability to live off the land; and a failed Survival roll means you suffer 2d-4 injury. But you can't live off the land on a gas giant or an ice world, and the environment there will inflict a lot more than 2d-4 injury per day; in fact it will kill you almost immediately.

It's the GM's option to make up things like Survival (Radioactive Wasteland). But that implies that it's also the GM's option to say there is no relevant survival skill for such places.

[Ultraviolet]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I consider Urban Survival almost purely physical - if it involves people it's not the right skill - and Streetwise basically the mirror image - it's almost entirely social.

Area Knowledge is about knowing things, not doing them, which overlaps with the other two skills some only because the doing part is often so trivial it doesn't need a roll when once you know. And of course it only works in your familiar area.

I actually consider Urban Survival quite social, in a way, making it different than the other Survivals. Because you need to know not just about the environment, shelter, food because you need a more active approach. IMHO this sets it apart from the skills to survive in urban ruins. In a living city you can exploit sources of discarded materials for food etc. you can sneak through unattended entrances in heated buildings etc. I can't figure out however how much this skill covers asking for handouts, getting into shelters for a night and sharing resources with other people living on the street
However interacting in a major way with people seems more Streetwise to me.

[RogerBW]

Originally Posted by safisher

There's no requirement for a shirtsleeve environment. Survival skill mentions "radioactive wastelands" and that very much implies that equipment is needed, and perhaps other gear skills could be used in addition to Survival.

I went into Survival (Radioactive Wasteland) in some detail in GURPS Disasters: Meltdown & Fallout - with approval from Kromm. It's specifically the skill of what you can do without equipment, e.g. "given this wind and land shape, fallout is going to accumulate over there, so I'll stay out of that valley". In many situations, Survival (underlying terrain) plus Hazmat (Radioactive) is just as good.

[vicky_molokh]

A fictional example of a human using aquatic specializations of Survival seems to be Subnautica, though I personally haven't played it.

[safisher]

Originally Posted by RogerBW

I went into Survival (Radioactive Wasteland) in some detail in GURPS Disasters: Meltdown & Fallout - with approval from Kromm. It's specifically the skill of what you can do without equipment, e.g. "given this wind and land shape, fallout is going to accumulate over there, so I'll stay out of that valley". In many situations, Survival (underlying terrain) plus Hazmat (Radioactive) is just as good.

NBC Suit is a skill, just as Vacc Suit is a skill -- those are related to managing personal protective suits, not avoiding danger in the wild. All throughout UT and HT you will see equipment bonuses to Survival, including, as I mentioned, Survival skill roll for using the rescue ball. It's a skill at a penalty without personal basics, for instance. UT mentions a bonus to Survival for the vapor canteen, etc. HT gives a bonus when using Survival kits and shelters.