DF: Treasures we want to see

[Anders]

Following the success of Power-Ups we want to see, this is the thread to discuss further development in the field of treasures for the DF series.

I would pay good money for an edition with consumables - spices, herbs, incense, wine, and stuff like that. Make a good change from the usual glittering stuff. Expanding on what's in Treasures.

[simply Nathan]

A CF for a cinematic, but non-magical, boomerang effect on thrown weapons. Possibly something low like +4 on sticks (or even just on boomerangs) and something higher like +9 on other throwing weapons.

Prices and weights for full sets of armor that give equal DR to all hit locations, historicity be darned since this is DF.

Tail armor for lizardmen and catmen.

Exceptions to the "wings cannot be armored and still be used to fly" rule on pixies and dragonmen.

Tiny Tools and armor for small characters charts extended to SM-3, SM-5, and SMs below -6. Scaling equipment on characters SM+2 and larger (loot the corpses of armored siege beasts and Jotnar!).

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anders

Following the success of Power-Ups we want to see, this is the thread to discuss further development in the field of treasures for the DF series.

I would pay good money for an edition with consumables - spices, herbs, incense, wine, and stuff like that. Make a good change from the usual glittering stuff. Expanding on what's in Treasures.

I think Low Tech has some lists of real world spices that would give some idea to compare fictional ones to.
My world has a semi-tropical tree bark spice in the same vein as cinnamon that my giant-ish species love more than 20 year old white women (and I) love pumpkin spice. Humans find it horribly bitter but sometimes an acquired taste.

[scc]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I think Low Tech has some lists of real world spices that would give some idea to compare fictional ones to.
My world has a semi-tropical tree bark spice in the same vein as cinnamon that my giant-ish species love more than 20 year old white women (and I) love pumpkin spice. Humans find it horribly bitter but sometimes an acquired taste.

And I think that Glittering Prizes covered some of this. The real problem with most of the items on the OPs list is that they're PERISHABLE and thus there's the question of what they're doing in the dungeon. Preserve Food (M79) can explain things a little bit, but not completly

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by scc

And I think that Glittering Prizes covered some of this. The real problem with most of the items on the OPs list is that they're PERISHABLE and thus there's the question of what they're doing in the dungeon. Preserve Food (M79) can explain things a little bit, but not completly

I think the general rule is ground spices lose most flavor in 6 months. So that would be a logical concern for thinking dungeoneers.
But enchanted spice racks sound too cool to ignore. Great for the alchemist as well as the cook.
Don't eat that! That's not black pepper! That's black powder!

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

But enchanted spice racks sound too cool to ignore.

Fighter: "Okay we've looted the armoury, the treasury, and the library."
Thief: "Don't forget the kitchen! Spices have a great weight-to-cost ratio."
Wizard: "Careful, guys, the spice rack is definitely enchanted and if we damage it while prying it off the wall the enchantment will break and the spices might go bad before we get back to Town."

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Don't eat that! That's not black pepper! That's black powder!

Black powder is perfectly edible, although it tastes mostly like charcoal (being mostly charcoal). You won't blow up from eating it, and you won't be poisoned. You might expose yourself to mouth and bowl cancers if you make a habit of it due to the nitrates (trites?), but that's just like eating corned beef, hot-dogs, bacon, and other meats preserved with nitrates (trites?).

You might be able to press it into service as an improvised meat preservative in the field if you only have the final product, not the raw niter. Everything WILL taste like soot and farts, which while better than starving, is not very nice.

[thulben]

Originally Posted by Bruno

You might expose yourself to mouth and bowl (sic) cancers if you make a habit of it due to the nitrates (trites?), but that's just like eating corned beef, hot-dogs, bacon, and other meats preserved with nitrates (trites?).

AFAIK, black powder has nitrates (most recipes I've seen call for saltpeter aka potassium nitrate) while cured meats have nitrites (which in addition to being a preservative gives them that pink color).

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

A CF for a cinematic, but non-magical, boomerang effect on thrown weapons. Possibly something low like +4 on sticks (or even just on boomerangs) and something higher like +9 on other throwing weapons.

This is probably more appropriate as a Technique of Throwing Art or similar than as a cinematic weapon modifier, assuming you want the weapon to be able to come back after a hit (a CF to return on a miss is probably appropriate).

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

Tail armor for lizardmen and catmen.

Tail armor for a lizardman - who has a Reach C Striker - should probably have the same weight and stats for armor for a single arm. Requiring it (or at least some of it) to be flexible is optional. Catfolk tails are features that shouldn't need armored, but if you insisted I'd eyeball such armor as having the same weight and stats for armor for a single hand, and it would probably need to be flexible.

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

Exceptions to the "wings cannot be armored and still be used to fly" rule on pixies and dragonmen.

One approach would be a lesser discount on the Winged Limitation. Failing that, armor that doesn't count as armor for layering might arguably be usable as-is (weight and stats probably as for leg armor), but anything beyond that should probably use some sort of magic (possibly a reduced-cost Flight enchantment or similar).

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

Tiny Tools and armor for small characters charts extended to SM-3, SM-5, and SMs below -6. Scaling equipment on characters SM+2 and larger (loot the corpses of armored siege beasts and Jotnar!).

For armor, every +1 to SM is +2 steps on the SSR table to cost and weight. SM +1 is +2 SSR (x2), SM+3 is +6 SSR (x10), SM-1 is -2 SSR (1/10), SM -10 is -20 SSR (1/2000), and so forth. For large weapons, the trend looks to be each +1 to SM is +1 SSR to MinST, damage, cost, and weight, with a minimum of +SM to damage. Reach is unaffected, although you could justify at least some boost. For small weapons, I'd slightly rescale the table from DF3 so that Reach and MinST are each simply -1 SSR per -1 SM, but I'm not sure how weight should be scaled. I personally favor the LTC2 way of scaling things (and favor LT armor as well), but that's not really appropriate for the DF line.

Originally Posted by scc

The real problem with most of the items on the OPs list is that they're PERISHABLE and thus there's the question of what they're doing in the dungeon.

A dungeon inhabited by humanoids may well have fresh supplies (either due to raiding or more legitimate methods), as might one who's denizens have a habit of attacking nearby settlements/caravans. A "dungeon" of some sort where the perishables are actually produced would similarly have fresh supplies.

And, of course, let's not forget that this is DF, where a 1,000 year old bottle of wine is exceptionally well-aged, rather than a bottle of vinegar.

[Pseudonym]

I'd kinda like something on the order of CER for treasure to gauge how much money or how valuable a treasure is for an encounter/dungeon/adventure of a given difficulty... Could probably make it up myself though. Kinda getting a feeling for anything 30 CERish should be about $500-ish, and then another $100 for each additional 5-ish CER... or simplify it to $20 per point of CER.

I'd like some gamey mechanics for generating weapons or armor without respect to realism with particular metrics. I mean, in the meanwhile, I can kinda play with the concept of costing out an advantage using metatronic generators or sorcery enchantment, and say "Well, 1d C,1 range cut innate attack cost $x, so a falchion with an extra 1d cutting damage costs the original falchion price + $x; the fact that it is literally added to damage instead of occurring as a follow-up is a zero point feature" But I'm wary of costing problems; the Cost Factor for a fine or very fine promotion seem to suggest 1d extra damage should be pretty costly... but then again, Fine and Very Fine have other advantages...

I dunno if treasure tables is the right place for it, but low-tech gadgeteering crafting systems, and some guidelines for what someone might achieve with a scrounge and in how much time; It seems like, for example, a Quick Gadgeteer Artificer can pretty easily scrounge up a thousand dollars worth of stuff in short order for a very modest skill penalty.

And this is the kind of hemming and hawwing I have.