Martial Arts: Polearm/Quarterstaff/Weapon Adaptation

[Gollum]

OK for the house rule.

But the description of the naginata really sounds strange...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naginata

Having said that, I have to admit that I never trained to use a naginata (and didn't see how it is handled).

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Gollum

OK for the house rule.

But the description of the naginata really sounds strange...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naginata

Having said that, I have to admit that I never trained to use a naginata (and didn't see how it is handled).

The Naginata is +0U when used used as a swung weapon due to length, however used a Reach 2 thrusting weapon it is only +0

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

You know that Weapon Adaptation allows, say, wielding a weapon in Fencing mode even though the weapon doesn't have a 0F parry in its line, right?
When a benefit or drawback is part of the skill and not part of the weapon, then Weapon Adaptation grants the benefit by wielding a weapon with the chosen skill.

Yes but you can't double up on 0F you can double up on +2 so it's not an equal comparison.

Also there is no such thing as a fencing skill (unlike the staff skill) there are melee skills that include fencing weapons.

moreover weapon adaption is not what we're talking about here, we're talking weapons that appear under two skill listings. Which is is kind of inbuilt weapon adaption but with specific stats for each skill, and in general the specific trumps the general.

However we can test the point easily. Staff skill has several weapons with +2 in their listed parry characteristic, and some with 0 or 0U, do you add a blanket +2 to parry on top of all of them?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

However we can test the point easily. Staff skill has several weapons with +2 in their listed parry characteristic, and some with 0 or 0U, do you add a a blanket +2 to parry on top of all of them?

We know the answer to this question:

Originally Posted by Kromm

Any balanced weapon used with Staff skill gets +2 Parry. However, there is no such thing as "+2U" Parry, which is why the naginata is "0U."

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

We know the answer to this question:

OK so to be clear you give every weapon listed under Staff skill a +2 to parry unless it has U in it's parry stat? So a quarter staff / long staff / Jo all parry at a total +4 at your table?

Also that Kromm quote is a bit odd because it infers* that the only reason staff weapons with 'U' aren't +2 is because they have the 'U'. So what about weapons listed under staff that are just 0?


*or I actually think you over inferring from it. I think his point is just about 'Unbalanced' and your broadening it out to all weapons.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

OK so to be clear you give every weapon listed under Staff skill a +2 to parry unless it has U in it's parry stat? So a quarter staff / long staff / Jo all parry at a total +4 at your table?

Heck NO if there under the staff skill listing on the table then the effects of the staff skill is already refected in their parry stat.

just like when the Sai when listed under the Jitte/Sai skill [Martial arts p.227] is listed at "+0" but when the Sai is listed under the Main-Gauche skill [p.228] is listed as "+0F"

hence why the nagaita while listed under the staff skill isn't "+2U" but "+0U" because it an unbalanced weapon but can be used with the Staff skill to let use cr damage with it

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

OK so to be clear you give every weapon listed under Staff skill a +2 to parry unless it has U in it's parry stat? So a quarter staff / long staff / Jo all parry at a total +4 at your table?

Also that Kromm quote is a bit odd because it infers* that the only reason staff weapons with 'U' aren't +2 is because they have the 'U'. So what about weapons listed under staff that are just 0?


*or I actually think you over inferring from it. I think his point is just about 'Unbalanced' and your broadening it out to all weapons.

I go that the principle that the general rule applies unless a specific one overrides it.
I.e. a weapon wielded with the Staff skill enjoys the benefits of the Staff skill unless stated otherwise. Such 'stated otherwise' cases can be weapons with a U-Parry, or weapons whose statline for Staff overrides the parry modifier.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Heck NO if there under the staff skill listing on the table then the effects of the staff skill is already refected in their parry stat.

just like when the Sai when listed under the Jitte/Sai skill [Martial arts p.227] is listed at "+0" but when the Sai is listed under the Main-Gauche skill [p.228] is listed as "+0F"

hence why the nagaita while listed under the staff skill isn't "+2U" but "+0U" because it an unbalanced weapon but can be used with the Staff skill to let use cr damage with it

Yep that's pretty much how I see it

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I go that the principle that the general rule applies unless a specific one overrides it.
I.e. a weapon wielded with the Staff skill enjoys the benefits of the Staff skill unless stated otherwise. Such 'stated otherwise' cases can be weapons with a U-Parry, or weapons whose statline for Staff overrides the parry modifier.

So you do have quarterstaffs / Jo etc with +4 to parry?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Having said that, I have to admit that I never trained to use a naginata (and didn't see how it is handled).

Very differently than a staff. :P


Somewhat between the way Dueling Halberds and Long Spears are used (meaning in some modes of attack/defense a naginata is used like a heavier long spear and in some like a lighter halberd).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

So you do have quarterstaffs / Jo etc with +4 to parry?

Why +4? You seem to be offering to apply the general and the specific example of the rule twice. Don't do it twice.