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Old 01-06-2016, 12:41 PM   #1
Railstar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

As far as their Advantages allow - I would say if someone wanted to make this an important character element, take Social Regard or Reputation. Be generous with letting the player take these things if they want to spend points in that direction, but ultimately the player decides if they want them and they will not be freebees.

Ultimately, being put a pedestal is not always a positive. People might hold celestials to unreasonably high standards and react badly when those are not met.

People know celestials always detect as good - it could make people more suspicious, because you can't actually determine their moral outlook in the usual ways.
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

Wasn't Lucifer an angel?
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Old 01-06-2016, 12:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

Might you hold "falling" over them like a sword of Damocles?
Tell them their celestial appearance is contingent upon their continued "good" behavior?
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

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Originally Posted by SRoach View Post
Might you hold "falling" over them like a sword of Damocles?
The half-celestial presented in DF3 has no specific requirement to be good, they just detect as good. Given that Celestial and Infernal have the same point cost, you could probably give them a feature whereby they can actually change templates based on their behavior (this could result in some divine gifts becoming unusable), but it's not something built into the race as written.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

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Originally Posted by SRoach View Post
Might you hold "falling" over them like a sword of Damocles?
Tell them their celestial appearance is contingent upon their continued "good" behavior?
Lucifer was still capable of assuming a fair seeming appearance.

I would, generally speaking, have the unwashed hordes assume that as an "Angel", the character can do no wrong. But anyone with a point in relevant Theology would be able to remember how Lucifer was not only the fairest angel, but also the one closest to the Lord.

Of course, that's all dependent on if your setting has a psuedo christian theology for angels.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

There is a perk that lets you make an intimidate check without talking to someone, you could adapt that for Fast Talk (or what ever talky skill you feel is appropriate) and then simply discourage them from using it in other ways.

Another possibility is a sufficiently positive reputation that everyone just overlooks their actions.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

GURPS Dungeon Fantasy assumes a dirty, gritty kind of fantasy where even the "cute" halflings and leprechauns are, respectively, gangsters and foul-tempered little brutes. Everybody is looking out for #1, which is why the saintliest clerics still accept payment in gold procured through theft and murder. As the (brief) rules for social order in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 2: Dungeons suggest, the authorities are harsh, unforgiving, and prone to dishing out corporal punishment. This is the context for celestials.

Turning to the racial write-up: "Some people believe that celestials exist for a Reason and are the Chosen. However, if divine servitors are forbidden to fraternize with mortals – as clerics claim – then it seems more likely that celestials descend from rebel angels, or that angels aren't divine servitors." Which is to say that the prevailing belief is that celestials are the offspring of fallen angels who can't keep their pants up. They get exactly the same amount of slack as anybody else with +1 to reactions thanks to Attractive, but not one iota more. Their racial feature of counting as Good has nothing to do with how they're perceived in mundane interactions; it's a technicality or loophole in cosmic law that hinders as often as it helps, and only matters in supernatural affairs. Only some fool who relies entirely on Detect Evil spells would let that influence him.

In short, ordinary people in the dog-eat-dog environment assumed in DF generally acknowledge that celestials are pretty. Beyond that, any awe they might feel is balanced by an apprehension that angels are dangerous, mercurial, and maybe a bit rapey. Thus, celestials don't get a free pass. And note that the author is well aware of the Honest Face perk, which he gave to gnomes and halflings so that they could live in polite society despite being known to be gifted thieves and kleptomaniacs, respectively. Celestials don't have this because they're at least as likely as anyone else to draw blame when things go wrong . . . maybe more so, when things go supernaturally wrong or someone experiences virgin birth.

If a player wants a "can do no wrong" celestial, then by all means let her buy Honest Face. Agents, assassins, bards, cutpurses, innkeepers, servants, and thieves all have it as a standard option, allowing sketchy people who are card-carrying members of the demimonde, lowborn classes, and underworld to hang out with holy warriors and get audiences with kings. Perhaps more pertinently, it's suggested for clerics of love, who also have holy ties with a decidedly carnal shadow.
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Old 01-06-2016, 02:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

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Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
Lucifer was still capable of assuming a fair seeming appearance.
"Fairest and fallen, greeting and defiance!" (a wizard's standard greeting to the Lone Power in Diane Duane's Young Wizards series)

"under the general rule that they can be opposed to the crap It pulls without being rude to it. The goal, after all, is to get It to stop acting out and go home, and who knows, in the long run being polite may help…" —Diane Duane
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

The Perks Convincing Nod and Honest Face would work well together for someone that people won't suspect of doing anything wrong.
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Old 01-07-2016, 07:16 AM   #10
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Default Re: [DF] "But I'm a (half) angel!"

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Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
Lucifer was still capable of assuming a fair seeming appearance.
.
Geeky aside: In Milton, Lucifer is amazed and dismayed that the real Angels don't recognize him after his Fall. "If thou beest he, but O how fall'n! how changed!" etc. Sure, he can shapechange, and Adam and Eve don't see through his disguises, but the Angels see through him right away and in Hell, the fallen angels hardly recognise one another. Plus they can take damage: unfallen angels can't.

Still, DF is a silly format and I guess you have to overlook the absurdity that an actual angel would go dungeon crawling for loot, so hey, whatever suits your format/world. If there are Celestials who go grubbing around for gold and murder merrily for the challenge, I guess they would have a less robust reputation for innate goodness?
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