[New Release] GURPS Social Engineering: Back to School

[reddir]

Very cool, and something I've wanted to see for a while.

1 question: does it contain suggestions for how to adjust learning times if one removes normal CP gain (from mission completion, sessions, etc)?

If not in the supplement, any thoughts from the authors? Or from other board posters?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by reddir

Very cool, and something I've wanted to see for a while.

1 question: does it contain suggestions for how to adjust learning times if one removes normal CP gain (from mission completion, sessions, etc)?

If not in the supplement, any thoughts from the authors? Or from other board posters?

Not directly addressed, though some of the content in Chapter 1 is relevant.

Really it depends on what effect you're aiming at. Do you want the PCs to gain skills at the high rate typical of PCs, but to do so without spending CP? Or do you want them to progress distinctly more slowly, at a pace more typical of people in the real world? Those two would call for distinctly different rules tweaks.

[reddir]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Not directly addressed, though some of the content in Chapter 1 is relevant.

Really it depends on what effect you're aiming at. Do you want the PCs to gain skills at the high rate typical of PCs, but to do so without spending CP? Or do you want them to progress distinctly more slowly, at a pace more typical of people in the real world? Those two would call for distinctly different rules tweaks.

I would be looking for advice on making it closer to real world, but at the same time avoiding a feeling of drag. The system is expected to be balanced for both '200 hrs learning' & 'session CP', and even then some folks might consider the ability growth slow.

I was hoping for some happy medium, something fun that allows timely character ability changes but without the meta-game of session CP.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by reddir

II was hoping for some happy medium, something fun that allows timely character ability changes but without the meta-game of session CP.

Having played a different RPG that did not allow for any form of earned experience through adventuring or successful use of skills, but only for advancement through expensive training, I definitely recommend that you don't go that route. I found it no fun at all, as someone who's learned a lot of his own skills by doing things; the author worked for a company where training was everything, and experience was little valued.

It is workable to require session CP to only be spent on improving abilities that were used in the session, although it tends to require a fair mount of book-keeping as a character gradually accumulates enough points in a skill to raise it a level.

It is also workable to require some amount of training time per session CP spent, although this should be less than 200 hours. I've had reasonable results with requiring characters to spend 50 hours training each time they bought a new skill with session CP.

[reddir]

Originally Posted by johndallman

It is workable to require session CP to only be spent on improving abilities that were used in the session...

I thought this was the default? And anyway, it is definitely more immersive to do this.

Originally Posted by johndallman

It is also workable to require some amount of training time per session CP spent, although this should be less than 200 hours. I've had reasonable results with requiring characters to spend 50 hours training each time they bought a new skill with session CP.

This is interesting, and something I hadn't considered. It brings things 'in-game' with the 50 hrs of training, and the meta-game CP keeps things in some kind of check.

---

I am also considering changing the 'hours of learning' to 'uses', in regards to improving abilities. So:
...100 uses during life-or-death combat
...200 uses under the direct supervision of a qualified instructor
...400 uses if trying to improve by practicing exercises from a manual/etc
...800 uses if just doing it over and over again.

Does this seem too easy? 1 CP for this many uses does not seem like very much.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by reddir

I thought this was the default?

It is, but a lot of people are looser with it. If two game sessions are, for example, successive game days, it seems harsh to say "no, you can't spend today's CP on skills you used yesterday."

I am also considering changing the 'hours of learning' to 'uses', in regards to improving abilities. So:
...100 uses during life-or-death combat
...200 uses under the direct supervision of a qualified instructor
...400 uses if trying to improve by practicing exercises from a manual/etc
...800 uses if just doing it over and over again.

Does this seem too easy? 1 CP for this many uses does not seem like very much.

It seems too hard at the combat end. If I can't improve Guns (Rifle) until I've made 100 attack rolls in real combat ... I have a character in a WWII game who hasn't made many in total across all his firearm skills in 61 scenarios over more that four years game time.

[reddir]

Originally Posted by johndallman

It seems too hard at the combat end. If I can't improve Guns (Rifle) until I've made 100 attack rolls in real combat ... I have a character in a WWII game who hasn't made many in total across all his firearm skills in 61 scenarios over more that four years game time.

I am surprised. Is this character maybe a sniper character? Or some sort of infiltrator?

If so, then I expect he's used stealth or disguise/bluff skills many many times.

If not...I am stumped.

Non-the-less, he must have spent time practicing?

[johndallman]

You'll get more response from the thread in the main GURPS forum, here. This forum is fairly low-traffic.

[reddir]

Originally Posted by johndallman

You'll get more response from the thread in the main GURPS forum, here. This forum is fairly low-traffic.

Ah, I didn't realize which forum this was! I did a search for "Back to School" on gurps forums with Google and this was the first link. I'll check the usual thread there too, thank you for the link.