"1/2 as effective against X" Limitation and Player Controlled Allies

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Yes, and if both categories are weak to a category that increases Vulnerability, or if both resist a category and that increases IT:DR, etc.. But I really want to avoid all that. The simplicity of just slapping on a single modifier to model the interactions between the various categories rather then Meta Traits... because, say, if we have 18 categories that's potentially 171(!) Meta Traits to be statted out. Instead, while characters might be of two different categories, their abilities may only have mono category modifiers, e.g. the Rock/Water combo character's abilities might either have the Rock or Water modifier. This way I'm just working with 18 different modifiers. It saves my sanity. x_x

No, I just said that they don't add to each other. Thus, you just determine what hurts what and what doesn't hurt what, and simply drop things that counter each other if a character mixes types.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

No, I just said that they don't add to each other. Thus, you just determine what hurts what and what doesn't hurt what, and simply drop things that counter each other if a character mixes types.

Yeah, I get it. If Rock is weak to Water, and Water resists Water, then Rock/Water takes neutral injury from attacks of Water. What I'm saying though is if both categories have a common weakness, then instead of Vulnerability x2, it's x4. If they both have a common resistance, then instead of IT:DR 1/2, it's 1/4. I hope we're on the same page now.

[Kalzazz]

From the discussion of damage types and Allies this sounds like GURPS Pokemon

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

From the discussion of damage types and Allies this sounds like GURPS Pokemon

"!"

I intentionally omitted the subject matter hoping it would therefore attract more replies and thus not deter others from commenting due to either not knowing much about Pokemon or simply disliking it. My ruse would seem to be up though. ^_^

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Peaches

Yeah, I get it. If Rock is weak to Water, and Water resists Water, then Rock/Water takes neutral injury from attacks of Water. What I'm saying though is if both categories have a common weakness, then instead of Vulnerability x2, it's x4. If they both have a common resistance, then instead of IT:DR 1/2, it's 1/4. I hope we're on the same page now.

Does it work that way in Pokemon now? Either way, increasing resistance/weakness is still just "you have both of these categories applied to you." No extra work is required to allow somebody to mix two types.

[Mailanka]

My concern with elemental rock-paper-scissors is that it tends to work best with games that have piles of hit points: If you have 100 HP and I deal 10 damage, then it will take me 10 turns to defeat you, unless I use an attack that you're weak against, in which case it'll take me 5 turns. There's a sort of calculus that you can balance your critters around.

But GURPS doesn't work like that. If I have 10 HP, and you deal 10 damage, then it doesn't really matter to me if I'm vulnerable to it or not, I'm going to try to not get hit either way, so either way, I try not to get hit.

If I had a DR against certain attacks, then suddenly that changes: If I am strong against your attack, I might not bother to defend and I might just AoA instead. Or, what if all the characters in your game had "Higher Purpose (Elemental Affinity)" that gave them a bonus against certain characters. In fact, if this all balances out, why not make it a feature? If Earth characters get +1 vs Water characters and a -1 vs Wood characters, then it's pretty much a wash, and they just have that affinity, and you don't worry about the cost. In any case, by making it a flat modifier, then it impacts my ability to fight, not just my ability to inflict damage.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

My concern with elemental rock-paper-scissors is that it tends to work best with games that have piles of hit points: If you have 100 HP and I deal 10 damage, then it will take me 10 turns to defeat you, unless I use an attack that you're weak against, in which case it'll take me 5 turns. There's a sort of calculus that you can balance your critters around.

But GURPS doesn't work like that. If I have 10 HP, and you deal 10 damage, then it doesn't really matter to me if I'm vulnerable to it or not, I'm going to try to not get hit either way, so either way, I try not to get hit.

If I had a DR against certain attacks, then suddenly that changes: If I am strong against your attack, I might not bother to defend and I might just AoA instead. Or, what if all the characters in your game had "Higher Purpose (Elemental Affinity)" that gave them a bonus against certain characters. In fact, if this all balances out, why not make it a feature? If Earth characters get +1 vs Water characters and a -1 vs Wood characters, then it's pretty much a wash, and they just have that affinity, and you don't worry about the cost. In any case, by making it a flat modifier, then it impacts my ability to fight, not just my ability to inflict damage.

For Pokemon, at least in the video game canon, it isn't uncommon for the critters to get K.O.'d in 2-4 hits, so the low HP norm of GURPS might just be fine as is. The art of making them last longer in a fight is paying attention to Typing, e.g. If my Pokemon gets K.O.'d I might want to send out a Pokemon who has the strongest resistance to the opposing Pokemon's Type, or attempt to counter with a stronger offensive Type instead.

Unfortunately, not all Types are equal. For example the Bug Type has weaknesses to the 3 most offensively powerful Types, is resisted by 7 other types, has so-so resistances, and is only advantageous against 3 Types which usually have a means of countering the Bug Type anyways. Besides how their Type effectiveness, they're generally an overall weak bunch... then there's the Dragon Type. We won't talk about the Dragons.

[Peaches]

An idea that came to me just now that would make these modifiers more appropriate is if they were also Power Modifiers. Pokemon within their given Types generally have common powers in that they share, aka "Moves/Abilities" that they learn or innately have. I think with the method previously mentioned for figuring the modifiers would work just fine for this.

[Peaches]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Does it work that way in Pokemon now? Either way, increasing resistance/weakness is still just "you have both of these categories applied to you." No extra work is required to allow somebody to mix two types.

... *facepalm* I think I'm now just understanding this. So basically, if I have a Pokemon with Water Type Meta Trait, and then also a Rock Type Meta Trait, they just mesh accordingly. Am I understanding now?

This is actually a lot simpler, you're right. So I can just hash together the 18 Meta Traits... and -0% Type modifiers on abilities so they interact with the Meta Traits.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Peaches

... *facepalm* I think I'm now just understanding this. So basically, if I have a Pokemon with Water Type Meta Trait, and then also a Rock Type Meta Trait, they just mesh accordingly. Am I understanding now?

This is actually a lot simpler, you're right. So I can just hash together the 18 Meta Traits... and -0% Type modifiers on abilities so they interact with the Meta Traits.

Yep. Just put both meta traits on the sheet, and cross out things that cancel each other.