Wheellocks and Flintlocks

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Sindri

Not really. People who prefer digital watches don't prefer them because the parts are so tiny and complicated. Having impressive inner workings are a draw of clockwork, and wheellocks are clockwork.

Of course they don't because digital watches aren't clock work, and we value digital stuff by different metrics? (just as they did guns)

Digital watches are rather a different context to the watches I was talking about, I'm still talking about watches as objects of status at around the same time as wheel locks and flint locks. Watches at the time were prized for complexity and part of who that was shown was through extra functionality. Now you still have answered how that extra functionality can be shown with wheel locks.

Saying wheel locks are clock work is a bit abstract to be meaningless. Its not particularly complex clock work so no real scope to have impressive workings in the context of complex clockwork workings. It actually juts a gun with a different trigger mechanism. An inherently simpler thing than a watch.

One that was surpassed pretty quickly and had no scope to up it game with extra functionality

It also not like we don't have real life to judge them by, if their inherent nature was seen as intrinsically valuable above their utility as guns they would have lasted a bit longer, and well they didn't

Originally Posted by Sindri

However it can be seen through branding.

Branding based on internal complexity still has to draw attention to it, and justify why it is a good thing.

Branding also changed between the period we're talking about and modern times. Branding back them was based more of specific recommendation (e.g Gun makers to the king") branding now a days is based on wider range of values, (although celebrity endorsement is still a big one). It's also an interesting one because it actually deal with perception of value, functionality and quality, without necessarily having it.

Originally Posted by Sindri

Sure, you can do a lot. Not quite "let's just slap some gold on the thing" though I think..

Don't think anyone has said that have they? Also you haven't addressed the point.

Originally Posted by Sindri

I'm just responding in this regard. For this thread I'm interested in mechanical differentiation.

OK, but since the end result is the same, your going to have to come up with some reason whey weellocks are seen as specifically more worth of status.

As I and if you want to marry it to clockwork, I'd go with added functionality / automation

Originally Posted by Sindri

What's being talked about is how noble gear is defined. You can slap a ton of decorations on a spear, but you could also take the intrinsically more expensive sword and throw decorations on it.

Yes that fine, it basically value adding. But the point is the inherent Flinlock/wheellock = spear/sword metaphor is flawed because the wheel lock really wasn't that distinct from the flint lock in either form, function or perceived status. Flint and wheel mechanisms were really just means to an end with no real inherent value attached to them other than how they achieved that end.

I think the point is you want it to be so simple because it involved clockwork. and that fine (you've already said your setting up your society to inherently see that as a draw), but you really can't use real life to model that, because in real life it wasn't the case in that context.

Originally Posted by Sindri

However proportionality doesn't actually matter. All that matters is relative impressiveness. Otherwise people wouldn't add on minor additional decorations to something that already looks nice.

That again assumes that the wheel lock is some how more inherently more relatively impressive than a a flint lock, and again if that's your set up fine, but don't go looking for that in RL examples because it doesn't seem to have been the case in RL.

But TBH I don't actually get your point as the post I was responding to was talking about difference in mechanism costs.

Also if nothing else you still get decoration because it will just become another vector to impress by (its just it will all be wheel locks), unless you having a society that inherently values the wheel lock and is not interested in decoration at all.