[MA] Non-Standard Whip Techniques

[Gigermann]

I'm working up a character for a new campaign, and I thought it'd be a good opportunity to do something I've always wanted to—a whip guy. Easy enough. I took some inspiration from this video of whip expert, Anthony DeLongis, and I've found a few bits the current rules don't quite cover.

Specifics:

• Around 8:00 in the video, he's using a 2-yard whip in what anyone would describe as a Rapid Strike—by RAW, it should take 1 sec to ready this whip after a strike (B406), which is maybe correct if using the "old way" he mentions
• Around 8:15 in the video, he's clearly using the whip, doubled over, as a flail—sure, use the Flail skill for that, but what are the stats?
• Around 8:35 in the video, he grabs his assistant with the loop—Armed Grapple (MA67) talks of using Entangle (MA71, B406) for a flexible weapon at reach, but Entangle has certain connotations to it that don't seem to apply (specifically, requirements to "escape"), and in actuality, feels more to me like Hook (MA74)
• Around 9:35 in the video, he uses the handle like "nunchaku"—again, using Flail skill, but stats? I just borrowed the stats from the nunchaku, but maybe that's not entirely correct
• Around 9:50 in the video, he swings the handle again, only this time with extra reach
• Around 9:55 in the video, he uses the "flail mode" to execute a Sweep, which by RAW (MA81), requires a two-handed weapon—says nothing about "flexible" weapons, and since it's really a "catch-and-release" it doesn't fit Entangle
• Around 10:05 in the video, he's using the handle, not as for Pummeling (MA111), but as a baton—probably just using Shortsword skill with regular "baton" stats(?)
• Around 10:25 in the video, he's doing some basic Armed Grapple stuff with the "baton"—easy enough, but with which skill, Whip or Shortsword? (Just based on the usage demonstrated, I'd probably rule it's the latter)
• Around 10:35 in the video, we have a Choke Hold, I suppose, using Armed Grapple based off Whip(?) Garrote doesn't seem appropriate

Many of these alternative uses might qualify as "improvised," in which case I'd like to buy off any penalties with a Perk or something. But the Improvised Weapons Perk (PU2:6) is specialized by skill, which would require purchasing each of those skills and the Perk to go with them—I'd rather have a single Perk allowing the use of other "attack modes" with the same skill. Too much, or just narrow enough?

Anyway, maybe I'm just overthinking it—wouldn't be the first time—but I figured I'd see what other knowledgeable types thought.

[Gigermann]

No takers, eh? Or maybe just posted at a bad time. Well, maybe if we just break down the most important point.

RAW says a 2-yard whip requires 1-sec Ready maneuver after an attack (B406). The video I linked (and others) clearly demonstrate that this is not true (or at least, is not necessarily true), and even Rapid Strike is possible. If nobody disagrees with this interpretation, then what's the most rules-friendly way to remedy the issue?

• Make a House-Rule—easiest, probably, but technically breaking the rules
• Make a Perk—some kind of justified Rules Exemption thing
• Make a Technique—costs more than a Perk
• Fold into Weapon Master

[somecallmetim]

Originally Posted by Gigermann

Specifics:

• Around 8:00 in the video, he's using a 2-yard whip in what anyone would describe as a Rapid Strike—by RAW, it should take 1 sec to ready this whip after a strike (B406), which is maybe correct if using the "old way" he mentions

I feel like this one, at least, is using the Whip Art skill instead of the Whip combat skill. He is striking more often, but he doesn't seem to be putting much force behind each blow. I don't doubt that it would hurt if you walked into one of those strikes, but I doubt they rate the full damage for a normal whip strike at the users full strength. That said, I am far from an expert.

[Gigermann]

Originally Posted by somecallmetim

I feel like this one, at least, is using the Whip Art skill instead of the Whip combat skill. He is striking more often, but he doesn't seem to be putting much force behind each blow. I don't doubt that it would hurt if you walked into one of those strikes, but I doubt they rate the full damage for a normal whip strike at the users full strength. That said, I am far from an expert.

That was my first thought, as well. Of course, he's most-likely using Whip Art the whole time, and in this case, he's actually trying to not hit the guy. I don't see why he couldn't put full force behind it, though, and even if you restricted it to half that speed for a full-force attack, that's still twice as fast as RAW allows.

But then I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to giving all Rapid Strikes the same reduced damage as Defensive Attack anyway.

[DouglasCole]

Just saw this - no time right now, but have you applied the Technical Grappling concepts to some of your moves?

[Gigermann]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Just saw this - no time right now, but have you applied the Technical Grappling concepts to some of your moves?

My group hasn't taken that plunge yet—more's the pity—so I'm not including it in my analysis. It's an obvious fit, though.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Gigermann

Around 8:00 in the video, he's using a 2-yard whip in what anyone would describe as a Rapid Strike—by RAW, it should take 1 sec to ready this whip after a strike (B406), which is maybe correct if using the "old way" he mentions

I'm not so sure it's a Rapid Strike, since he's not hitting anything. Maybe it's more like a All Out Defense.

Around 8:15 in the video, he's clearly using the whip, doubled over, as a flail—sure, use the Flail skill for that, but what are the stats?...

Around 9:35 in the video, he uses the handle like "nunchaku"—again, using Flail skill, but stats? I just borrowed the stats from the nunchaku, but maybe that's not entirely correct

The stats for a swung Rope-dart might be the closest match.

Around 10:25 in the video, he's doing some basic Armed Grapple stuff with the "baton"—easy enough, but with which skill, Whip or Shortsword? (Just based on the usage demonstrated, I'd probably rule it's the latter)

Don't cut it too fine -- he's using a whip, whips have handles -- Whip skill.

[zoncxs]

He is using the whip skill, Kusari skill, flail skill and shortsword skill.

I would call it a perk to use a whip with those skills, remember in the video he said he has been studying martial arts for almost 40 years, thats a lot of style familiarity!

[GodBeastX]

He's definitely switching to improvised weapons for alternate skills.

Probably can do a technique to use the whip rapidly.

I disagree that he has no power in it. He explains earlier in the video he's using a different method of holding the whip than tradition so he can wind the whip faster. He also explains how whip quality means the whip will react faster. Which may be part of why his whip doesn't need the readying.

Would this constitute a Rule Exemption? "Reverse Whip" doesn't require a ready maneuver?

I'm no expert on whips though, just theorizing.

[Gigermann]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

He is using the whip skill, Kusari skill, flail skill and shortsword skill.

Explain your thinking regarding Kusari?

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I'm not so sure it's a Rapid Strike, since he's not hitting anything. Maybe it's more like a All Out Defense.

No, he's neither Parrying nor Dodging there—no Active Defense. His purpose is to keep the enemy at bay, which is discussed in MA (p.106), but this is more of a "mental" application—that's a bit of a separate discussion