The D&D Monster Conversion Thread

[Jürgen Hubert]

I just had a look at GURPS Dragons how they statted dragons there. Even the biggest "generic" dragon template, the "Monstrous Dragon" with SM +5 has a template ST of 30 and DR 7 - and no additional Lifting ST.

In contrast, the "Wyrm Black Dragon" at the Repository, which also has SM +5, has ST 35, and a DR of 16 (while the GURPS Dragons version only has DR 7).

Thus, the GURPS ST = d20 Strength seems workable enough. Also keep in mind that the primary goal here is to create useful combat stat blocks - how much the creatures in question can carry is frequently a lesser concern. ;)

[Jürgen Hubert]

An added idea:

Plenty of people have come up with converted D&D creatures, but many of them won't have the time to add them to the wiki.

Thus, I've created a Google Drive Shared Folder where anyone can upload their own files with such creatures.

Important - only upload files with conversions you have created yourself, or which the author gave you permission to use for this purpose.

Furthermore, include the name of the author in the filename, so that we can give proper credit when adding it to the wiki.

[Jürgen Hubert]

I've finished with adding the conversions by Collective Restraint.

What's next?

[trechriron]

Fine job!!

I joined the Wiki, trechriron, let me know where I can help out.

I have the Pathfinder Bestiary PDFs. I think digging into 2, 3 and 4 would be fun. They have some cool monsters in there!

Also, 5th Edition Foes for 5e has some great classic monsters in there.

I will take a crack at a couple here this weekend, get my feet wet. :-)

[Edges]

It sounds like dragons have been nurfed quite a bit since I played D&D.

Here you have the largest black dragon being 1 SM larger but 10 ST weaker than your average elephant. That sounds like a pushover for the 1000+ CP DF combat monsters that it should be built to face.

The biggest black dragon in 2nd ed. was around SM +8. If the SM +2 dragon in Basic were scaled up to SM +8 using the rules in Fantasy p. 51, she would have 250 ST. Or if you want to not include the tail and fudge the size a little, you could call it SM +7 and go with ST 170. That seems about right. A claw will do around 28d.

The SM +5 black dragon you're talking about is more like what 2nd ed. would call a young adult. Using Fantasy's method, he'd have about ST 80. I guess they don't make editions like they used to.

Hypothetically, if a man-sized dragon has 8-13 ST, then a scaled SM +5 dragon should have 54-89 ST.

Realism and consistency aside, if you just want to create stat blocks that are meant to serve as a certain challenge, I' think you still need much higher ST values on your epic monsters. Things like the largest dragons are not meant for 250 point, or even 750 point, DF characters IMO. Depending on the dragon color, I'd expect PCs to be in the 1000 - 1600 range to deal with great wyrms. Otherwise, what are those epic level characters going to do? It's the name of the game after all.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by trechriron

Fine job!!

I joined the Wiki, trechriron, let me know where I can help out.

Well, you know the basics. ;)

I've given you admin access. If you feel you are up to it, you can also come up with a better CSS scheme for the wiki - I've never gotten around to coming up with something better than the default scheme, and I don't have the time to delve into that.

I have a test wiki for CSS/layout testing purposes - if you want, I can give you admin access for that as well, so that you can play around with it before testing it on the GURPS Repository.

I have the Pathfinder Bestiary PDFs. I think digging into 2, 3 and 4 would be fun. They have some cool monsters in there!

Indeed. Furthermore, I added new forms which make use of the Pathfinder fan site policy (which differs from the WotC one.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Edges

It sounds like dragons have been nurfed quite a bit since I played D&D.

Here you have the largest black dragon being 1 SM larger but 10 ST weaker than your average elephant. That sounds like a pushover for the 1000+ CP DF combat monsters that it should be built to face.

The biggest black dragon in 2nd ed. was around SM +8. If the SM +2 dragon in Basic were scaled up to SM +8 using the rules in Fantasy p. 51, she would have 250 ST. Or if you want to not include the tail and fudge the size a little, you could call it SM +7 and go with ST 170. That seems about right. A claw will do around 28d.

The SM +5 black dragon you're talking about is more like what 2nd ed. would call a young adult. Using Fantasy's method, he'd have about ST 80. I guess they don't make editions like they used to.

Hypothetically, if a man-sized dragon has 8-13 ST, then a scaled SM +5 dragon should have 54-89 ST.

Realism and consistency aside, if you just want to create stat blocks that are meant to serve as a certain challenge, I' think you still need much higher ST values on your epic monsters. Things like the largest dragons are not meant for 250 point, or even 750 point, DF characters IMO. Depending on the dragon color, I'd expect PCs to be in the 1000 - 1600 range to deal with great wyrms. Otherwise, what are those epic level characters going to do? It's the name of the game after all.

Hmmm... good points - looking at the animals in the Basic Set, high D&D Strength should result in even higher GURPS ST values, instead of the 1:1 conversion.

Any suggestions for a formula? Perhaps increasing ST by +25% per size category above "Medium"?

Thus we would get:

Large: +25%
Huge: +50%
Gargantuan: +75%
Colossal: +100%

Also, what SM ranges should these D&D size categories represent?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Edges

It sounds like dragons have been nurfed quite a bit since I played D&D.

No, it's just a problem with a conversion. That wyrm black dragon in 3e can kill armies.

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

Any suggestions for a formula? Perhaps increasing ST by +25% per size category above "Medium"?

I'd just change your ST conversion for Str > 20. Possibly also throw hit dice into the mix.

For comparison, the wyrm black dragon in d20 has:
Size G -- 16-125 tons
Str 35 -- base of 3,200 lb (ST 56), but increased to 38,400 lb (ST 195) for being a quadruped.
Natural Armor 33 -- for reference, plate armor provides 8 points in d20, so even if you're using a linear conversion, it's about DR 25. Also DR 20/magic, so it's basically immune to nonmagical weapons.
Attack Bonus +42, bite 4d6+12, a bunch of secondary attacks. This isn't all that convertible, but I probably wouldn't convert melee damage to lower than it is in d20, so at least 7d6 damage in GURPS.

A first pass at conversion:

Dragon, Black Wyrm (d20 conversion)
ST: 56      HP: 56      Speed: 6.75
DX: 10      Will: 22    Move: 12, fly 40
IQ: 14      Per: 22
HT: 17      FP: 17      SM: +5
Dodge: 9    Parry: n/a  DR: 25
Bite (20): 8d+18 Cutting (Striker, Brawling); counts as Armed

[Jürgen Hubert]

I've decided that conversion guidelines should be a separate wiki page.

Naturally, this is still a work in progress. Apart from the discussion revolving around ST, another issue is how attacks requiring Will or Fortitude saves should be converted. They are afflictions, of course - but how should the resisting attribute be modified?

I came up with the following:

d20 save DC - GURPS Attribute Modifier
11 or less: +1
12-13: 0
14-15: -1
16-17: -2
18-19: -3
20-21: -4
22-23: -5

and so forth.

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

I came up with the following:

d20 save DC - GURPS Attribute Modifier
11 or less: +1
12-13: 0
14-15: -1
16-17: -2
18-19: -3
20-21: -4
22-23: -5

and so forth.

2 DC per GURPS modifer seems like a good choice, but I would probably put 0 at DC 10-11. A basic level one commoner with 10 in all stats have a 50% chance to resist a DC 11 effect, while a GURPS character with 10 in all stats would have slightly more than 50% chance to resist an effect with a 0 modifier.

Also why use +1 for all low DCs? Should not a DC 5 effect be easier to resist than one with DC 8?