Old-School D&D style game

[Jürgen Hubert]

Run, not walk, to the D&D Conversion page at the GURPS Repository.

My personal guideline for converting D&D levels to GURPS CPs is:

GURPS CP = 25 x (D&D level) + 75

Thus, a 1st-level D&D character would be 100 points, a typical "heroic" GURPS character with 150 points would be level 3, while a starting Dungeon Fantasy character would be level 7.

Sounds about right to me.

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by Carlos

Just wondering... If those DF templates would be equivalent to level 5th or 7th to D&D, what would be a 1st level D&D character to GURPS? 50 points??? How would you create a monk with that?

A 1st-level D&D character could be anywhere from -100 to 150 points depending on class. Or even way higher with good rolls for high ability scores.

A first-level D&D monk in GURPS could just be Karate(DX)[4]-11, 2-4 points each in a handful of melee weapon skills like Staff and Tonfa, Trained by a Master[35], and Disciplines of Faith(Chi Rituals)[-10]. Just look at the lenses in DF3 and think "apply this to an average joe off the street" rather than "apply this to an accomplished super-competent DF character". Or it could be the full monstrosity in DF1.

A first-level wizard might easily have only Magery 0[5], one of Knife, Thrown Weapon(dart or knife), Shortsword, Broadsword, Axe/Mace, or Staff at DX, one spell known at (IQ)[4]-10, and the Vows: Knives, Darts, and Clubs Only[-5], Do Not Wear Armor[-15], and Do Not Use Shields[-5].

A first-level fighter would likely have almost every weapon skill at DX (everything other than weapons deemed "exotic", all low-tech weapons, all weapons ever, all things that are remotely related to killing people, or four+INT bonus distinct proficiencies depending on edition).

Really we're a lot better off recreating the spirit and flavor of the D&D archetypes in GURPS than we are trying to port them over on a mechanical level. I do think 250 is crazy high as a starting point, but I always was one for preferring to play D&D as first-level characters and generally got bored once we started hitting level 4 or so.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

1. 250 points isn't that complex when using templates

... And survivability is important. That said, 250 point GURPS Df template characters obviously aren't going to play the same way as 1st level AD&D or D&D3 characters. Probably not like 4th or 5th Edition D&D characters either.

[T.K.]

I saw some discussion on this matter a while back and the general consensus was that 1lvl in D&D would roughly translate to 50-ish pts in Gurps.

The problem though, is that Gurps can't really be measured by points alone. The rule options used and accessible to players, where those points are spent and a lot more plays a much bigger role defining "power" in Gurps.

It's the same old same old 250pts librarian against the 50pts fighter.

What I'll be doing in my soon to start high fantasy campaign is award 1 XP point each session and 30-ish XP pts for completions (quests, archs, major objectives, finish dungeons...)

That way they know they're increasing each session (like Gurps normally is) and also have big bursts of power (like D&D levels).

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Carlos

My only "complain", however, is that unarmed martial arts don't receive enough love, despite the fact that not only D&D but many other games presents monks that use his bare hands in their whacking way. I may be wrong, but at least for what I recall from my PMs/posts to Kromms about unarmed martial artists, it seems he thinks that such character is a foolish way to be a martial artists. Again, I may be wrong.

He largely does; apparently it's just not a concept he was regularly exposed to in his gaming history (videogame or otherwise) - at least as competing on equal ground with armed characters. And IRL it's kinda nutty.

It does seem to be basically a special trope of D&D and co. and some kinds of anime/manga (not all - most unarmed friendly settings have everyone unarmed with optional superpowers, not a mixture).

BUT! There was a bit of complaining about the subject on the forum here, which I think brought it up to Kromms and Peter Del'Orto's attention (he'd been on the same page as Kromm AFAIK), and ho, Pyramid to the rescue!

Pyramid vol3 #61 Way of the Warrior has the article "More Power to Dungeon Warriors" (by Peter and Sean) lavishes much attention on the Monk template.

Another idea floated about has been to make a metatrait bundling a vow to fight unarmed and another to fight unarmoured (which is a pretty BIG problem in DF, even more so than real life what with the toxic goop, acid-skinned slimes, man-eating swarms, and so forth). You'd combine them with... something (the suggestion I've seen is the Imbue advantage, possibly limiting it to folks with those disadvantages and even applying Pact to boot).

[Dragondog]

There's one DF adventure, Mirror of the Fire Demon, that you can find at http://www.warehouse23.com/products/...the-fire-demon. No conversions needed.

Kromm has made a few posts that could be useful. In http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...885#post751885 he suggests 50 points + 50 points per level, which would make 250 points a level 4 character.

In http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=84477&page=4 he says that not wearing armor is a -10 point vow as there are spells that grant DR. Not using any DR whatsoever would be -15 points.

[mehrkat]

You can also do Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap. You would need to make the templates a full conversion with descriptions and full templates.

When I wanted to create a new world I started with Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap, typed up a full description of each template and racial template. I'm a big fan of Divine Favor so I also converted Clerics to Divine Favor and reworked druids but all fit within the 150 point template.

As the points decrease so do the choices and therefore the complexity. Though the adventures you can do are smaller in scale too.

You should also consider the Mailanka's Homebrew Monster Creator for enemies. I've found it very useful for thinking about enemies.

[Kromm]

If you are going to try to do AD&D in GURPS, I'd make a point of checking out not just the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy series, but also the various Pyramid articles intended to support it. Notably:

• I offer additional quasi-official templates in issues #3/10, #3/36, #3/50, #3/60, #3/64, and #3/68. Other authors offer more in issues #3/13, #3/36, and #3/47. Many of these touch on beloved old-timey character classes.
  
  
• There are useful power-ups in issues #3/19, #3/50, and #3/60, if you need to customize further to get the feel you want.
  
  
• There are higher-powered treasures in issues #3/38 and #3/75, which might be a better match than standard GURPS enchanted items if you want an old-school game.
  
  
• I add more depth to town in issue #3/58, which provides the resources you'd need to track high-level characters into their follower-attracting, title-holding phase.
  
  
• I revisit spell lists in issue #3/60, which many gamers feel is necessary to get a better caster/non-caster balance.
  
  
• As others have said, issue #3/61 is not to be missed if you want more love for barehanded warriors (or really, any warriors).
  
  
• And if you find character points a pain, be sure to check out issue #3/72, where I reinvent the entire series in a menu-based form that makes character creation and advancement easier, vastly simplifies the skill list, and removes the need for detailed accounting from the table.

[Nymdok]

I cant second enough that GURPS does old school DF more enjoyably than old school DF does.

To that end, there have been a few conversions done, I did Tomb of Horrors 1E

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=76221


and I think Rasputin did the 3e WHite PLume Mountain

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=14

Note that I did my by the Percentages where as I believe Rasputin did his by 'feel and suitability'.

I know there must be others.....

At any rate, Dungeon Fanasy on the cheap allows you that 'leveling up feeling' and my personal advice is to start at around 150 points.

I dont know if its still available, but someone should do a rigorous write up of Gorgolands gauntlet becasue that module is a helluva good time and should convert quite easily. (Is that one still free?)

Abandon any notions of Points to Level conversions as they will only lead you to madness.

There you have it. You have rules. You have at least 2 adventures. You have players. Assuming you have dice, you're on your way :)

Nymdok
p.s. Eveytime I post these links I get the wild hair to redo Castle Amber....that hair once again is feeling wild....

[Anders]

If you want fewer points, there's always Dungeon Fantasy on the cheap.