Old-School D&D style game

[soulnafein]

Hello there,

A local Old School RPG group found itself without a d&d GM. They generally play D&D and/or traveller.
I've suggested that I'm happy to run a few old-school dungeons using GURPS.

Obviously Dungeon Fantasy came to mind but two things put me off it in this situation:

1) 250 points characters are complex for beginners
2) Old school 1st level characters aren't that complex

I'm really keen to let GURPS shine so other things I need to figure out:

1) Progression (what's a good progression rate for such a game?
2) Adventure: can you suggest an old published D&D adventure that doesn't involve too many different type of creatures (lots of conversion work) and that they would enjoy?
3) Anything else I should think about and I'm not?

Thank you guys!

[Nereidalbel]

1. 250 points isn't that complex when using templates
2. DF is ~lvl 5-6 in D&D, which is only a couple murder hobo adventures into most campaigns anyway.
3. ~10 points/session works out ok for D&D leveling.
4. Can't help ya too much on that one, but, some DF players rather enjoy Yrth as their setting. Comes with a nice timeline of events and such.
5. We'll get back to ya on this one!

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by soulnafein

Hello there,

A local Old School RPG group found itself without a d&d GM. They generally play D&D and/or traveller.
I've suggested that I'm happy to run a few old-school dungeons using GURPS.

As I recently found out, Dungeon Fantasy does "old school" Dungeons and Dragons better than Dungeons and Dragons. I think you'll think the same after a few sessions.

Originally Posted by soulnafein

1) 250 points characters are complex for beginners

Not really. While you can't put a DnD level to GURPS points, the templates as listed are probably between 5th and 7th level. When I GMed D&D I rarely started characters below 4 levels and I only remember two GMs who started at level one in nearly 25 years of gaming. That said the "leveling up" dynamic for GURPS is so radically different from D&D that players might actually become frustrated if you start them off at "low level" and use the guidelines for normal advancement (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3: The Next Level, p. 42).

Originally Posted by soulnafein

2) Old school 1st level characters aren't that complex

No, but they really aren't that much fun either. It's incredibly annoying to play a 1d4 HP mage and die requring you to create a new character. That said, check out GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 15: Henchmen for lower value characters.

Originally Posted by soulnafein

1) Progression (what's a good progression rate for such a game?

To keep it similiar to D&D I'd offer up at least twice what is listed in DF3 so you can "level up" every session.

Originally Posted by soulnafein

2) Adventure: can you suggest an old published D&D adventure that doesn't involve too many different type of creatures (lots of conversion work) and that they would enjoy?

I always liked Expedition to the Barrier Peaks myself, but Against the Cult of the Reptile God might work better if you use lower-point value characters.

Originally Posted by soulnafein

3) Anything else I should think about and I'm not?

I have a ton of worked up critters on my blog which might prove helpful.

[soulnafein]

Thank you for the quick a useful answers.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

As I recently found out, Dungeon Fantasy does "old school" Dungeons and Dragons better than Dungeons and Dragons. I think you'll think the same after a few sessions. [snip]

+1. I wasn't all that keen on D&D before my GURPS group ran our dungeon tribute game for Gary Gygax seven years ago, and now I use (some variation on) GURPS DF templates and rules for probably half of the games I run, including my current one, because it's such an effective way to ease people into high-powered violent fantasy, even if they're a little iffy on the rules.

ETA: Obligatory link to Mailanka's excellent Homebrew Monster thread.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

+1. I wasn't all that keen on D&D before my GURPS group ran our dungeon tribute game for Gary Gygax seven years ago, and now I use (some variation on) GURPS DF templates and rules for probably half of the games I run, including my current one, because it's such an effective way to ease people into high-powered violent fantasy, even if they're a little iffy on the rules.

ETA: Obligatory link to Mailanka's excellent Homebrew Monster thread.

I was a huge fan of D&D. Huge. It was my first RPG and it has a special place in my heart. I was in the RPGA and ran Raven's Bluff living campaigns so long...well - it was a long time. I stopped playing D&D when WoTC said "we're doing a new edition" not even a year after I swallowed the need for 3.5. I just quit. Never looked back. My players pretty much did the same. We were over it. Went fully to GURPS. But being able to capture the feel of tunnel-crawling with GURPS didn't occur to us until I demoed it for my local FLGS. They were hooked. Of course, I run DF like I used to run D&D - far more serious than "leveling up." I like to think of it as using Dungeon Fantasy as framework for running "high fantasy." It works quite well and I fully intend to write some on that specific subject since nearly all the other folks who run DF seem to do something very similiar.

[David Johansen]

I was working on a GURPS Lite supplement a couple years ago that was a stripped down action fantasy.

Really, you can do it pretty well with just GURPS Lite and the magic rules from the Basic Set. The trick is avoiding advantage and skill bloat.

Characters should look like this:

Fighter 150 points
ST 15 [50];
DX 13 [60];
IQ 10 [0];
HT 13 [30].

Advantages:
Combat Reflexes [15];
Comfortable Wealth [10].

Disadvantages:
Code of Honor (Soldier's) [-10];
Enemy (Orc Champion) [-10];
Over Confidence [-10].

Skills
Axe / Mace 12 [1];
Brawling 14 [2];
Climbing 12 [1];
Broad Sword 14 [4];
Riding 13 [2];
Shield 14 [2];
Spear 12 [1];
Spear Throwing 13 [1];
Swimming 13 [1].

[simply Nathan]

You can easily simplify from the DF baseline by making a few alterations to the templates too. Forbid options other than the Knight, Swashbuckler, Wizard, and Cleric for pure oldschoolness and make True Faith w/ Turning mandatory on the Cleric template instead of the usual chunk of character points to choose from various Holy abilities. Or go with the Henchmen that turn into those classes (Squire, Skirmisher, Initiate, and the like).

If you want the oldschool races, the list is pretty simple:
One of the lists chosen from

• Humans only
• Human, Dwarf, High Elf, Halfling
• Human, Dwarf, High Elf, Forest Elf, Half-Elf, Halfling, Half-Orc, Gnome

[Carlos]

I really love Dungeon Fantasy. Seriously, I have not enough words to say how much I love it.

My only "complain", however, is that unarmed martial arts don't receive enough love, despite the fact that not only D&D but many other games presents monks that use his bare hands in their whacking way. I may be wrong, but at least for what I recall from my PMs/posts to Kromms about unarmed martial artists, it seems he thinks that such character is a foolish way to be a martial artists. Again, I may be wrong.

I also wish to see how good would be a DF wizard using Ritual Path Magic. I never had the chance to play using that system and I wonder how good is RPM to a setting where magic is everywhere. I really would love to try one day. The only thing is that RPG seems much more complicated (and therefore, less newbie-friend) than the standard magic system. Perhaps "sophisticated" would be a better word.

Just wondering... If those DF templates would be equivalent to level 5th or 7th to D&D, what would be a 1st level D&D character to GURPS? 50 points??? How would you create a monk with that?

A level 20 D&D character would be a 1000 cp GURPS character? Geez, I can't even imagine how would be Elminster in GURPS.

Originally Posted by soulnafein

1) 250 points characters are complex for beginners

That's why there are those templates on Dungeon Fantasy 1. Kromm created them just to make things eaiser. Players just need to customize their characters spending some few points and everything is done. It's not that hard.

[mr beer]

I started running D&D games using 3e GURPS nearly 20 years ago and never looked back. This system is just so much nicer for fantasy ultra-violence than D&D.

Now I'm moving over to GURPS 4e because of course it's better than 3e. Martial Arts adds some great depth to fighters.

I've run everything from 150 point characters, up to 1,000 points and it's always been fun.

I just ran Expedition to the Barrier Peaks and it was great BTW.